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First people sickened by Covid-19 were scientists at WIV: US government sources

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Re: First people sickened by Covid-19 were scientists at WIV: US government sources

#261
post #225

I don't trust this article at all . > Sources within the US government say that three of the earliest people to become infected with SARS-CoV-2 were Ben Hu, Yu Ping, and Yan Zhu. All were members of the Wuhan lab suspected to have leaked the pandemic virus. > It is unclear who in the U.S. government had access to the intelligence about the sick WIV workers, how long they had it, and why it was not shared with the pub…

People need to start thinking of politically-impactful truths in terms of probability distributions and outcome possibility spaces, rather than absolutely.

If it were a lab leak, there are probably a handful of eyewitnesses.

Any information (not leak; was leak) would have serious ramifications to the political systems of the two largest economies in the world (the US and China).

What are the chances that we'll ever hear the true story?

Which isn't a suggestion that "They're covering {specific thing} up." It's a suggestion that we will never hear evidence of any of the possible outcomes.

And beyond that, what would "the truth" in this case change?

>> Said Metzl, “Had US government officials including Dr. Fauci stated from day one that a COVID-19 research-related origin was a very real possibility, and made clear that we had little idea what viruses were being held at the Wuhan Institute of Virology, what work was being done there, and who was doing that work, our national and global conversations would have been dramatically different. The time has come for a full accounting.”

Yes, the national and global conversations would have been substantially worse and less effective.

Once the cat's out of the bag with a global pandemic, any breath blaming its origin is wasted.

Can you imagine how many scarce resources would have been mispent if SARS-CoV-2 had begun with worldwide knowledge that China was responsible?

Re: First people sickened by Covid-19 were scientists at WIV: US government sources

#262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you looking for cnn, msnbc, fox, or one of the other media corporations fueled by pharma alone to write an editorial telling you why something is true? Go read the damn twitter files. That is the source. Are you questioning the veracity of the data given in the twitter files? Because even the executive branch didn’t do that.

> Are you looking for cnn, msnbc, fox, or one of the other media corporations fueled by pharma alone to write an editorial telling you why something is true? I am looking for specific evidence that substantiates the claim that was made. "Go read the damn Twitter files" is not evidence anymore than "Google it". > Are you questioning the veracity of the data given in the twitter files? Because even the executive branch…

I’m not here to feed you sources or convince you. If you’ve ignored the twitter files for months no link from me is going to change your mind.

Have a nice day.

Re: First people sickened by Covid-19 were scientists at WIV: US government sources

#263
post #225

I don't trust this article at all . > Sources within the US government say that three of the earliest people to become infected with SARS-CoV-2 were Ben Hu, Yu Ping, and Yan Zhu. All were members of the Wuhan lab suspected to have leaked the pandemic virus. > It is unclear who in the U.S. government had access to the intelligence about the sick WIV workers, how long they had it, and why it was not shared with the pub…

You won't have to wait long for confirmation. The Director of National Intelligence will be required by law to declassify information about the infected researchers on June 18th, including their names, symptoms, date of onset and role at WIV.[1] [1] https://www.congress.gov/bill/118th-congress/senate-bill/619...

Hey that's a cool link. I'm kinda embarrassed to say I didn't know you could track bills like this going through Congress. Thanks for the lead.

Re: First people sickened by Covid-19 were scientists at WIV: US government sources

#264
post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did they "end up in the hospital" or did they go to the hospital to get a diagnosis? I live in a city, and my PCP is in the local hospital. "seasonal illness symptoms" sounds FAR more like they were just sick and went to the doctor, like anyone else would. For medicine.

And what exactly does "hospital" mean in China? I know in India a hospital can basically be a small clinic, not unlike an urgent care center in the USA.

This is a very large, very modern city. I'm very willing to believe they went to real hospitals.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wuhan#/media/File:Wuhan_Yangtz...

Re: First people sickened by Covid-19 were scientists at WIV: US government sources

#265
post #225

I don't trust this article at all . > Sources within the US government say that three of the earliest people to become infected with SARS-CoV-2 were Ben Hu, Yu Ping, and Yan Zhu. All were members of the Wuhan lab suspected to have leaked the pandemic virus. > It is unclear who in the U.S. government had access to the intelligence about the sick WIV workers, how long they had it, and why it was not shared with the pub…

You won't have to wait long for confirmation. The Director of National Intelligence will be required by law to declassify information about the infected researchers on June 18th, including their names, symptoms, date of onset and role at WIV.[1] [1] https://www.congress.gov/bill/118th-congress/senate-bill/619...

>You won't have to wait long for confirmation.

Confirmation that they were sick. Not confirmation of what they were sick with.

Re: First people sickened by Covid-19 were scientists at WIV: US government sources

#266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My "source" was mainly common sense (the simplest solution is usually the right one https://www.cdc.gov/onehealth/basics/zoonotic-diseases.html 75% of all new infectious diseases come from animals. Isn't the simplest solution that COVID also came from animals? Just because it was a bad one doesn't make it less likely. Where did smallpox come from? Polio? Spanish flu? Is it strange that the lab was near the wet mark…

> 40,000 wet markets in China as of 2019 And yet it happened to spillover in a wet market in a city with the premier coronavirus research labs in the country. It also happened to happen far away from where these types of viruses originate. There are only a handful of labs in the county that do this type of research and WIV is the top one. So why did not not appear in a wet market in Yunnan or Guangdong?

Guangdong was SARS-CoV-1.

We've had two spillovers now of sarbecoviruses and the first one hit a completely unrelated city. The other one happened in Wuhan, which is the biggest city in central China and its "catchement area" is probably fairly wide around it.

It does appear that they spillover in wet markets in big cities.

The level of coincidence here may look like rolling a 1d20 two times and the second time getting a natural 1.

Re: First people sickened by Covid-19 were scientists at WIV: US government sources

#267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The wet market was one of the less densely trafficked areas of the city: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9348750/figure/... Check out the other figures in that paper. The epicenter was the wet market itself.

Here is a thread explaining the flaws in Worobey's paper https://twitter.com/danwalker9999/status/1595653898572042240

That's not really relevant. The cases are all still very far away from the WIV, which is itself far from anywhere the thread implicates eg residential areas.

I also suspect the thread is just flat wrong- the people most relevant to viral spread are NOT the ones who are only spending part of their day in the city. Its the people who live there and spend all their time there.

2/3rds of the population of Wuhan lives in the urban districts: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wuhan#Administrative_divisions

The people commuting in/out are a small minority. No model is perfect.

Re: First people sickened by Covid-19 were scientists at WIV: US government sources

#268
post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The sky is blue Exercise is good for you The government has assigned an agent to follow you when you leave your home, and listens to you through your cellular telephone Excess refined sugars is bad for you Isn't this an interesting argument structure?

When filled with facts sure.

They're all facts - just try debunking any of them

Re: First people sickened by Covid-19 were scientists at WIV: US government sources

#269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My "source" was mainly common sense (the simplest solution is usually the right one https://www.cdc.gov/onehealth/basics/zoonotic-diseases.html 75% of all new infectious diseases come from animals. Isn't the simplest solution that COVID also came from animals? Just because it was a bad one doesn't make it less likely. Where did smallpox come from? Polio? Spanish flu? Is it strange that the lab was near the wet mark…

> 40,000 wet markets in China as of 2019 And yet it happened to spillover in a wet market in a city with the premier coronavirus research labs in the country. It also happened to happen far away from where these types of viruses originate. There are only a handful of labs in the county that do this type of research and WIV is the top one. So why did not not appear in a wet market in Yunnan or Guangdong?

Maybe because the lab is located where the virus is abundant?

Re: First people sickened by Covid-19 were scientists at WIV: US government sources

#270
post #15

So… finally what lots of people were claiming but got censored on social media as well as mainstream media during the pandemic is being acknowledged and verified by the government. Follow up. Given statements to congress by government officials to Congress, under oath, that would contradict this conclusion, will there be repercussions for misleading the public, lawmakers and the scientific community? PS: It was never…

The fact that a broken clock is right once a day doesn’t change the fact that it’s still a broken clock, and after being identified as such doesn’t get to claim oppression after rightfully being relegated to the garbage bin. The same people who asserted things about the origins of covid were the same as those peddling quack “cures” to church groups and reposting Q anon memes. With respect to your follow up, as much a…

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