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San Francisco library turning off WiFi at night to keep homeless from using it

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Re: San Francisco library turning off WiFi at night to keep homeless from using it

#71

[flagged]

While your comment is a bit inflammatory I think it's important to point out that while "leftist" intentions are usually charitable, reality is harsh.

I think most of the people spouting this kind of stuff have zero concept of reality.

They’ve never had to worry about where they would get their next meal or any sort of real existential crisis in their lives.

“There but for the grace of god go I” or something.

Re: San Francisco library turning off WiFi at night to keep homeless from using it

#72

Every day I start to believe more and more that people won't stop with homelessness until every homeless person is dead. "Emergency housing is a drain on taxpayer dollars." "Job placement is taking jobs away from locals." "Soup kitchens are another drain on taxpayer money." "Homeless services are a waste of money." It makes me sick how people can act when it comes to the homeless population when so many of us are jus…

Library wifi is not a homeless service. An 24 hour open seat on a subway is not a homeless service. Parks where children play is not a homeless service. Public goods being overtaken by an antisocial drug users in the name of homeless support is not progressive.

I hope you never become homeless.

I was, for 4 weeks, and my local libraries wifi is what helped me stay in touch with my parents when my phone data was shut off for nonpayment. It helped me secure a job back at home.

You need to rethink your idea of what homelessness is. It's not antisocial drug users. It's also LGBT kids thrown out of their home. It's families being evicted because the parents lost their job. Even if they were antisocial drug users, sympathy, support, and assistance do more help than turning a blind eye and hoping they go away.

Re: San Francisco library turning off WiFi at night to keep homeless from using it

#73
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The cost to run the service though is as close to zero as you can possibly get. It just feels somewhat inhumane to take something away which is a marginal cost and at best and doesn't cause harm. I mean, Libraries themselves do not need to exist, they are a service, they don't earn money, under pure capitalism they can't exist. But we know as a society that it improves social mobility and education. and I mean, you c…

Why not provide wifi for the homeless as a service, with its own line item, instead of doing it via the Library?

[deleted]

Re: San Francisco library turning off WiFi at night to keep homeless from using it

#74

Every day I start to believe more and more that people won't stop with homelessness until every homeless person is dead. "Emergency housing is a drain on taxpayer dollars." "Job placement is taking jobs away from locals." "Soup kitchens are another drain on taxpayer money." "Homeless services are a waste of money." It makes me sick how people can act when it comes to the homeless population when so many of us are jus…

Library wifi is not a homeless service. An 24 hour open seat on a subway is not a homeless service. Parks where children play is not a homeless service. Public goods being overtaken by an antisocial drug users in the name of homeless support is not progressive.

But they should be, because the need is clearly there, and not being met

Re: San Francisco library turning off WiFi at night to keep homeless from using it

#75

Every day I start to believe more and more that people won't stop with homelessness until every homeless person is dead. "Emergency housing is a drain on taxpayer dollars." "Job placement is taking jobs away from locals." "Soup kitchens are another drain on taxpayer money." "Homeless services are a waste of money." It makes me sick how people can act when it comes to the homeless population when so many of us are jus…

As someone who volunteers with the homeless a lot I mostly agree, but I will take the other side for a moment: It's very hard to a voter base who feel financially squeezed that their taxes should be going to people who, usually, are not holding down a job. They're "doing everything right" and feel the government is robbing Peter to pay Paul as it were. There are a lot of sophisticated answers we can give as to why th…

I’ll add on to this that it does look like not only a hopeless situation, but one that has an entire cottage industry built around it.

I think I’m okay with my tax dollars being spent on the following:

1. Social services for the homeless.

2. Police suppression of the homeless.

3. Hygiene discrimination on public infrastructure (with showering and laundry covered in point 1).

4. Much more aggressive fare enforcement. I mean if you have to install kouban in all the BART & Muni stations and train cameras on the gates, that isn’t the worst place to do it.

I don’t want to be heartless, but not all homeless people are the same either. Give them the help they are willing to receive and for the rest that aren’t willing, that commit crime or show up on the bus covered in their own shit, I am A-OK with the police you know, policing. If you have a creative solution that will actually help more people? Great! We’ll try it out and see if it does or doesn’t help in the way that we want, but as an also, not instead of policing.

Re: San Francisco library turning off WiFi at night to keep homeless from using it

#76

Every day I start to believe more and more that people won't stop with homelessness until every homeless person is dead. "Emergency housing is a drain on taxpayer dollars." "Job placement is taking jobs away from locals." "Soup kitchens are another drain on taxpayer money." "Homeless services are a waste of money." It makes me sick how people can act when it comes to the homeless population when so many of us are jus…

Library wifi is not a homeless service. An 24 hour open seat on a subway is not a homeless service. Parks where children play is not a homeless service. Public goods being overtaken by an antisocial drug users in the name of homeless support is not progressive.

> Library wifi is not a homeless service.

Correct, it's a service for everyone - including the homeless. A world where library doors are closed to some people is a world that has lost its way.

Do homeless people have the same rights as everyone else? Granted, they may not readily afford lawyers, but some of the restrictions you're implying trample in their freedom of movement.

Re: San Francisco library turning off WiFi at night to keep homeless from using it

#77
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Library wifi is not a homeless service. An 24 hour open seat on a subway is not a homeless service. Parks where children play is not a homeless service. Public goods being overtaken by an antisocial drug users in the name of homeless support is not progressive.

The cost to run the service though is as close to zero as you can possibly get. It just feels somewhat inhumane to take something away which is a marginal cost and at best and doesn't cause harm. I mean, Libraries themselves do not need to exist, they are a service, they don't earn money, under pure capitalism they can't exist. But we know as a society that it improves social mobility and education. and I mean, you c…

Right, but bedding down outside the library at night so you can get free wifi is antisocial behavior. Why should we invest this much in our public spaces and then effectively give them away? I wouldnt want somebody sleeping next to my house so he could get WiFi. Public spaces are ours.

Don't get me wrong. I think we should make massive investments in trying to solve the homeless problem, but giving away our public commons is utter stupidity.

Re: San Francisco library turning off WiFi at night to keep homeless from using it

#78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Library wifi is not a homeless service. An 24 hour open seat on a subway is not a homeless service. Parks where children play is not a homeless service. Public goods being overtaken by an antisocial drug users in the name of homeless support is not progressive.

Libraries are a public service, and free WiFi is often provided along with that service. In this case that service is being deliberately sabotaged for one of the most vulnerable groups in society. Internet access is so necessary in modern life that it should be considered a citizen or human right. Even if you subscribe to the ideology of the homeless being lazy leeches, the counter-effectiveness is quite obvious. Hom…

They aren't refusing WiFi to homeless people. They're shutting it off at night because it encourages people to sleep there. Homeless people are still welcome to come in (or nearby) to use WiFi during normal hours.

Re: San Francisco library turning off WiFi at night to keep homeless from using it

#79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Library wifi is not a homeless service. An 24 hour open seat on a subway is not a homeless service. Parks where children play is not a homeless service. Public goods being overtaken by an antisocial drug users in the name of homeless support is not progressive.

I hope you never become homeless. I was, for 4 weeks, and my local libraries wifi is what helped me stay in touch with my parents when my phone data was shut off for nonpayment. It helped me secure a job back at home. You need to rethink your idea of what homelessness is. It's not antisocial drug users. It's also LGBT kids thrown out of their home. It's families being evicted because the parents lost their job. Even…

Same boat, there was a time for me when if it wasn't for a library computer I could use for free, I wouldn't have been able to get a job

Re: San Francisco library turning off WiFi at night to keep homeless from using it

#80

Every day I start to believe more and more that people won't stop with homelessness until every homeless person is dead. "Emergency housing is a drain on taxpayer dollars." "Job placement is taking jobs away from locals." "Soup kitchens are another drain on taxpayer money." "Homeless services are a waste of money." It makes me sick how people can act when it comes to the homeless population when so many of us are jus…

Library wifi is not a homeless service. An 24 hour open seat on a subway is not a homeless service. Parks where children play is not a homeless service. Public goods being overtaken by an antisocial drug users in the name of homeless support is not progressive.

Libraries are public services. Subways are public services. Parks are public spaces. If you are so progressive you would be interested in expanding social service spending to help people out of homelessness. This would solve your (personal) problem with homelessness.
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