Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

San Francisco library turning off WiFi at night to keep homeless from using it

theverge.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

61–70 of 184 posts

Re: San Francisco library turning off WiFi at night to keep homeless from using it

#61

Post by km3r »

notaustinpowers wrote: post #12

Every day I start to believe more and more that people won't stop with homelessness until every homeless person is dead. "Emergency housing is a drain on taxpayer dollars." "Job placement is taking jobs away from locals." "Soup kitchens are another drain on taxpayer money." "Homeless services are a waste of money." It makes me sick how people can act when it comes to the homeless population when so many of us are jus…

Or we are demanding real solutions. A library is not a homeless shelter. If the homeless population nearby is getting in the way of provide safe and clean access, the library should seek remedies to that.

The progressive attitude of "any opposition to a left wing idea is a right wing talking point" is so problematic towards finding *effective* progressive solutions. We NEED to critique our ideas and programs. The road to hell is paved with good intentions. And SF is on that road if we don't figure out something more effective.

SF spends more per homeless individual than most other US cities. It's not a matter of "we could solve this if there wasn't as much opposition to spending taxpayer money". Whatever we are doing now isn't working, and it's not some right wing talking point to acknowledge that. SF has wasted billions on bandaids to our housing crisis, it's time we find solutions that actually work on getting homeless people housed with access to the care they need.

Re: San Francisco library turning off WiFi at night to keep homeless from using it

#62

Post by michaelt »

warent wrote: post #35
aeternum wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The city is just so inept. It is such a nonsensical policy to allow encampments but lock the bathrooms and turn off the internet. The city policies force them to defecate in the street/bushes and god forbid they use the internet to search for potential employment or other services.

Meanwhile people say "But the homeless people will just use public wifi for porn!" Like... okay, and what are you using your wifi for? Regardless, removing this would just make them more stressed and irratic. There are worse things than legal porn on public wifi. If this tradeoff means 1% of them feel relaxed enough to actually do a job search afterward, and get motivated to get money for a more comfortable, more pri…

> what are you using your wifi for?

Pretty sure it's more a matter of location. Normal people only masturbate in the privacy of their own homes.

I know San Francisco is a very progressive city, but I don't think they're yet ready to embrace homeless people jerking it on the sidewalk outside the library.

Re: San Francisco library turning off WiFi at night to keep homeless from using it

#63

Post by williamvds »

0xB31B1B wrote: post #46
notaustinpowers wrote: post #12

Every day I start to believe more and more that people won't stop with homelessness until every homeless person is dead. "Emergency housing is a drain on taxpayer dollars." "Job placement is taking jobs away from locals." "Soup kitchens are another drain on taxpayer money." "Homeless services are a waste of money." It makes me sick how people can act when it comes to the homeless population when so many of us are jus…

Library wifi is not a homeless service. An 24 hour open seat on a subway is not a homeless service. Parks where children play is not a homeless service. Public goods being overtaken by an antisocial drug users in the name of homeless support is not progressive.

Libraries are a public service, and free WiFi is often provided along with that service.

In this case that service is being deliberately sabotaged for one of the most vulnerable groups in society.

Internet access is so necessary in modern life that it should be considered a citizen or human right.

Even if you subscribe to the ideology of the homeless being lazy leeches, the counter-effectiveness is quite obvious. Homeless people could be using the WiFi to access online banking, job, and housing applications. Things that would help get them off the street.

Re: San Francisco library turning off WiFi at night to keep homeless from using it

#64

Post by 2023throwawayy »

8f2ab37a-ed6c wrote: post #49
2023throwawayy wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So what is your proposed solution? All I hear is "they gotta go". Go where? On who's dime?

To be fair there's gotta be a more cost-effective place to house the unhoused than the Castro, West Village or Beverly Hills. I'm sure we can find cheaper stretches of land somewhere in the US.

To be fair...

"Go somewhere that rich people aren't" isn't much of a solution.

Re: San Francisco library turning off WiFi at night to keep homeless from using it

#65

Post by throwawaymaths »

dijit wrote: post #54
0xB31B1B wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Library wifi is not a homeless service. An 24 hour open seat on a subway is not a homeless service. Parks where children play is not a homeless service. Public goods being overtaken by an antisocial drug users in the name of homeless support is not progressive.

The cost to run the service though is as close to zero as you can possibly get. It just feels somewhat inhumane to take something away which is a marginal cost and at best and doesn't cause harm. I mean, Libraries themselves do not need to exist, they are a service, they don't earn money, under pure capitalism they can't exist. But we know as a society that it improves social mobility and education. and I mean, you c…

Why not provide wifi for the homeless as a service, with its own line item, instead of doing it via the Library?

Re: San Francisco library turning off WiFi at night to keep homeless from using it

#66

Post by JumpCrisscross »

notaustinpowers wrote: post #52
Hermitian909 wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who volunteers with the homeless a lot I mostly agree, but I will take the other side for a moment: It's very hard to a voter base who feel financially squeezed that their taxes should be going to people who, usually, are not holding down a job. They're "doing everything right" and feel the government is robbing Peter to pay Paul as it were. There are a lot of sophisticated answers we can give as to why th…

I think the issue isn't how much citizens are paying in taxes. I think it's how the government is allocating those funds. For example, my town I live in has average rent prices for 1 bedroom apartments ABOVE the medium HOUSEHOLD income. Our homeless population is starting to get out of control. Every day there are 3 to 4 homeless families with their children at the local mall intersection asking for assistance, becau…

> we spend 100s of millions a year on one public high schools sports budget

Where is this?

Re: San Francisco library turning off WiFi at night to keep homeless from using it

#67

Post by amanaplanacanal »

0xB31B1B wrote: post #46
notaustinpowers wrote: post #12

Every day I start to believe more and more that people won't stop with homelessness until every homeless person is dead. "Emergency housing is a drain on taxpayer dollars." "Job placement is taking jobs away from locals." "Soup kitchens are another drain on taxpayer money." "Homeless services are a waste of money." It makes me sick how people can act when it comes to the homeless population when so many of us are jus…

Library wifi is not a homeless service. An 24 hour open seat on a subway is not a homeless service. Parks where children play is not a homeless service. Public goods being overtaken by an antisocial drug users in the name of homeless support is not progressive.

Library Wi-Fi is supposed to be a service for everybody, unless I am missing something.

Re: San Francisco library turning off WiFi at night to keep homeless from using it

#68

Post by scarmig »

notaustinpowers wrote: post #12

Every day I start to believe more and more that people won't stop with homelessness until every homeless person is dead. "Emergency housing is a drain on taxpayer dollars." "Job placement is taking jobs away from locals." "Soup kitchens are another drain on taxpayer money." "Homeless services are a waste of money." It makes me sick how people can act when it comes to the homeless population when so many of us are jus…

It's reasonable for people have access to public services. If you turn every public service--sidewalks, parks, libraries, public transit--into something unusable because it's really an ersatz homeless shelter, there's an entirely expected response: people cease to use those services, because they're not really public anymore. And then people either vote to cut funding for those services, or they defund with their feet.

Governments have functions and services beyond homeless services they are obligated to provide. Saying that no public services will be provided until homelessness is solved is not a sustainable approach.

Re: San Francisco library turning off WiFi at night to keep homeless from using it

#69

Post by km3r »

stuckkeys wrote: post #15

"No porn for you" Probably some dumbass in the department that came up with this agenda. Okay, what is that going to solve? Maybe, just maybe come up with a plan to help these folks instead of kicking them down even further. I love it when politicians flex with "We are the greatest country on earth" STFU. You are not. Take care of your people.

What else do you recommend a library do (within their limited budget), while also solving the issue that these encampments are making the library unsafe and dirty?
Post reply on HN