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Show HN: I’m building open-source headless CMS for technical content

vrite.io

41–50 of 54 posts

Re: Show HN: I’m building open-source headless CMS for technical content

#41

A few comments that I hope may help bring more clarity for your intended audience: * Your website looks slick and kinda well designed (though there seems to be too much information moving around). * The documentation starts with getting the user to sign up for the hosted version (SaaS). * There is no pricing information or FAQ about pricing and business model. * Though the code seems to be on GitHub and the license t…

Like I've said in the original post, the decision to open-source was made only a while back, after the core was developed as primarily a closed-source service. I decided it'd be very hard to compete with a closed-source CMS, let alone one targeted at DEV, so I decided to go with it - to build community and move the idea forward in general. Still, actually adjusting it to be easily self-hostable will take time, as I wrote here: https://docs.vrite.io/self-hosting

The intention isn't to "talk users into" the hosted version, but just build interest, for which the hosted version serves best at the moment.

Other points r.e. landing page are valid and I'm generally aware that I should focus more on content than design. Easier said than done though :)

Re: Show HN: I’m building open-source headless CMS for technical content

#42
If you don't mind some feedback, I'll share some thoughts: My professional and personal experience tells me that markdown and a static site generators are the best workflow for technical writing. I can automate quite a lot, and do proper version control. A GUI CRUD and all the related requirements such as databases, would get on the way to keep the documentation in sync with the actual codebase.

Re: Show HN: I’m building open-source headless CMS for technical content

#43
post #42

If you don't mind some feedback, I'll share some thoughts: My professional and personal experience tells me that markdown and a static site generators are the best workflow for technical writing. I can automate quite a lot, and do proper version control. A GUI CRUD and all the related requirements such as databases, would get on the way to keep the documentation in sync with the actual codebase.

I'd agree with you on software product docs, and also note that tech writing is considerably broader than software and docs.

Re: Show HN: I’m building open-source headless CMS for technical content

#44

I think there's also a missing gap in how to present Swagger beautifully, the default one ( https://petstore.swagger.io/ ) is meh. I'm looking for something that can generate like https://stripe.com/docs/api but open source (since the OP is talking about it). I imagine a tool(chain) that can take Swagger generated from annotations in code, and combine it with a folder containing Markdown files for "free form" documen…

FWIW, Stripe's API docs use a bespoke toolchain that (as I heard it estimated) cost $1mil+ to build. There's a good reason Stripe is the gold standard of API reference—they invest heavily in their documentation. Considering how few other companies are willing to toss more than a few bucks at technical writers and tools, the difference is pretty stark.

Ryan Young, a tech writer at Stripe, gave a good talk at this year's Write The Docs on some of the philosophical choices they made in structuring their docs and responding to user feedback about where it didn't land as well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0OKRNQvZbL4

Re: Show HN: I’m building open-source headless CMS for technical content

#45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FWIW, Stripe's API docs use a bespoke toolchain that (as I heard it estimated) cost $1mil+ to build. There's a good reason Stripe is the gold standard of API reference—they invest heavily in their documentation. Considering how few other companies are willing to toss more than a few bucks at technical writers and tools, the difference is pretty stark.

Ryan Young, a tech writer at Stripe, gave a good talk at this year's Write The Docs on some of the philosophical choices they made in structuring their docs and responding to user feedback about where it didn't land as well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0OKRNQvZbL4

Ooh, thanks for the link! WTD talks are always great.

Re: Show HN: I’m building open-source headless CMS for technical content

#46

I'm .... confused. What's "headless" about it? It's got a GUI. Headless means "no GUI" or.. no visible "head". hugo, jekyll and most static blogs are "headless" CMSs. This is very explicitly setting itself apart from those by HAVING a "head".

Replace "headless" with "frontend-less"; in other words front-end agnostic, also known as "use the front-end of your choice".

Re: Show HN: I’m building open-source headless CMS for technical content

#47
I feel like a lot of these problems have been dealt with already in the lightweight markup ecosystem, and the other problems are solved in the VSC extensions.

While the "Big XML Specs" (aka DITA, S1000D, DocBook) allow you to re-use content, you can get the same functionality from Asciidoc or ReStructuredText. You can ALSO get the same functionality from Markdown, but it requires extensions, and the problem with THAT is that the functionality will change from instance to instance. Adoc and RST have transclusion and conditionals in core. I think Asciidoc is the right way to go here, but my reasoning might not be applicable for someone outside of the hard industries (manufacturing, aerospace, defense).

But just because you have transclusion and conditionals, that doesn't mean you're ready to start re-using content. Content re-use, the concept often called Component Content Systems, introduces a level of complexity that's almost always underestimated, and it's inherently dependent on information architecture in a way that a unified or natural document isn't.

Information architecture is going to be driven by product architecture, and if the product architecture is missing or wrong, then you probably shouldn't try to architect the documentation. Re-use only works when the product makes sense.

Here's an example.

Let's say my org makes planes. We make a product called SuperPlane. It has three variants, A, B, and C. Each of them is composed of modules: Wing, Fuel, Cockpit, Propulsion, Empennage. The product, in this case, is architected. SuperPlane modules share enough commonality so that the documentation for each module can be shared across all variants. So I have a "book" for A, for B, for C, and a single document module for Wing. Inside of the document module there are blocks of conditional content, for each of the variants. So when I run a book for A, it pulls in the Wing section, the it's customized for A as the conditionals are processed. Same for B and C: multiple deliverables, re-using the same modules.

My information architecture - filenaming, chunking, conditions - rides from the product architecture. The product architecture is solid, and so am I.

Now let's say our Maximum Leader has decided to acquire a car company, and has decided to make the flying car the D variant of SuperPlane. It's got an integrated wing and fuel module, so now, we lose content history with our A-B-C Wing and Fuel modules, in spite of the fact it's supposed to be equivalent. Its cockpit module shares no interfaces or commonality with the other cockpuit modules - so the module for Cockpit has a gigantic conditional section that largely parallels the others, in the same module, which makes assessing change impact really difficult. With the introduction of Variant D Superplane, the Superplane product is no longer architected, and our information architecture got blown up as well.

This is the core reason why component content systems (CCSs) are so hard. The end product depends on lots of stuff outside of the tech writers' wheelhouse, and unlike a document - which you can look at any old time you like - when the information architecture is busted in a CCS you might not even be able to get your content out of it. CCSs replace the natural language of document structure with the constructed language of information architecture, which is a bigger leap than I think many people realize; it fundamentally changes what your documents actually are. The original concept of CCSs did not come from a linguistic or information background, they were largely psychology academics and/or dealing with an EXTREMELY limited corpus, and you can see the trace of this in the awesome pattern of failure for most CCS systems to the present day. This is markup-agnostic; it doesn't matter if you're doing it in S1000D, DITA, DocBook, ReStructuredText, or Asciidoc.

So how do you check product architecture?

That is complicated, and it's going to depend on your industry. In a codebase, there are a LOT of tools for assessing variance, far too detailed a topic to get into here. In hardware and manufacturing, this is the sandbox of config management, but something I've found useful is warehousing all the product data I can get my hands on, then assessing an equivalence factor for any arbitrary grouping of final assemblies. When the equivalence factor is outside of a given range, I know that I might have problems if I treat those assemblies as "variants" of some fictional "product". Once it ventures outside of an acceptable equivalence, I will often assess that "variant" as its own pseudo-product for the purpose of information architecture. This saves so, so, so very many headaches - and if they ever do decide to rebaseline everything, we can make a task to reassess and, if commonality is now found, pull stuff together (within reason, some regulatory problems with wiping out procedures willy nilly).

Re: Show HN: I’m building open-source headless CMS for technical content

#48

I think there's also a missing gap in how to present Swagger beautifully, the default one ( https://petstore.swagger.io/ ) is meh. I'm looking for something that can generate like https://stripe.com/docs/api but open source (since the OP is talking about it). I imagine a tool(chain) that can take Swagger generated from annotations in code, and combine it with a folder containing Markdown files for "free form" documen…

Combining Swagger (OpenAPI) with Markdown prose was what prompted us to build Doctave [0]. Jekyll does a good job, but breaks down once you need more bells and whistles, such as search and versioning.

It's early, but worth checking out.

[0]: https://doctave.com/

Re: Show HN: I’m building open-source headless CMS for technical content

#49
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Headless means the CMS itself is an API. It can be hard to visualize so people may ask what could this look like? From there a headless cms can use the api to render the data as a site. It can be static, or dynamic.

but it specifically has a GUI. It touts the features of its GUI. Like... i feel like i'm not understanding something obvious. I get the idea of an API only server. I've written many. BUT by shipping a GUI (as part of it or separately) and then touting the features of that gui for managing the CMS they're no longer talking about a "headless" thing. They're talking about a GUI that may talk to a "headless" cms but the…

A bare bones api will sell faster with an example gui and management interface almost always.

It’s a starting point to both see what’s possible, and also a way to maybe have some boiler plate to experiment with right away to help users start using the api by example of usage not just by a call but in a front end.

I appreciate what you’re saying, got me it’s like finding an app and then wondering if it has an api. Both are useful

Re: Show HN: I’m building open-source headless CMS for technical content

#50
post #4

> I always had to move back an forth between different editors Yeah, that sucks, it's much easier when you can do everything in VSCode/emacs/vim and don't have to leave your dev environment to write about what you're developing… > WYSIWYG editor (with the addition of code-specific tooling like code editor or formatter) …wait, what? > Kanban dashboard (inspired by my experience of tools like Trello used in larger tech…

Yeah, the documentation aspect is something that I started thinking about recently. That's why, currently, Vrite is more optimized for programming/developer marketing blogs rather than documentations. I'm working on proper API docs (Swagger is pretty much a better-than-nothing placeholder), these wouldn't be served by Vrite. In basically all technical marketing teams I've worked in, things weren't as automated as you…

> I'm working on proper API docs (…), these wouldn't be served by Vrite.

I struggle to see what makes this a "technical content" CMS then, rather than just a generic marketing CMS.

For a generic marketing CMS aimed at marketers, the feature set makes a bit more sense. But for actual technical staff, all of these design decisions just break whatever flow the users might've had and add very little.

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