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The Reddit blackout has left Google barren and full of holes

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Re: The Reddit blackout has left Google barren and full of holes

#311
post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What’s shocking is everyone can wrap their heads around regular country post offices, emails, in general distinct entities interacting, but lose their minds when you tell them about mastodon. Just tell them it’s email for twitter. Just like you can interact with anyone who’s email address you know so too with their mastodon handle. The only real difference is that everyone also publishes all their “emails” for anyone…

Oh please. The consolidation has affected email equally to the point where "email" is synonymous to "gmail". No one is signing up for email by searching for other email clients, setting up SMTP and whatnot. They go to Google, search for "email" click on the sign up link to "gmail" and carry on. I hardly believe even more than 1% of email users even know about its federated nature Unless Mastodon has similarly sensibl…

> I hardly believe even more than 1% of email users even know about its federated nature

You're completely ignoring the corporate world, which may outweigh consumer email use (dunno, but it wouldn't surprise me.)

G Suite isn't even close to a monopoly, and I imagine there's large IT departments at anti-cloud corpos specifically for managing all their emails.

It's like, consumers don't know or care if they're using Linux, but they would definitely care if everything using it went away. Consumers aren't where Linux "won" either, it won on servers.

All this to say email is more centralized than it should be, but its decentralization is absolutely still important for its continued relevance.

If you take away the decentralization and Gmail were to become its own private messaging service, it would have the momentum to carry on for a while. But it would surely die. 5 years, maybe 10. But I have no doubt it would suffocate itself.

I know lawyers and founders who have Hotmail and AOL.com addresses, so I'd jump ship day one. One mass "Hey guys Gmail is bad here's my new email" to all my contacts (or as much as spam prevention allows...) and done.

Re: The Reddit blackout has left Google barren and full of holes

#312
post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's getting worse by the minute, too. What used to be a subreddit might now be a Discord server, which is in my opinion even worse, keeping solutions/questions to certain issues within Discord's own walls. You now have to enter a server, search for your specific problem, and, if not found, ask someone and wait for them to respond. If results are on the first page of google it's much more friction-less and convenient…

What is the appeal of discord? I've tried to multiple times and to me it's just ephemeral... something closer to irc then a web forum. The onboarding and UX is horrid (or I'm just an old dude... which is true :)

I use Discord to talk privately with my friends. Sometimes I get answers there on specific communities faster, but I agree that the non-searchability is horrendous.

Re: The Reddit blackout has left Google barren and full of holes

#313
post #18

Protip: If you really need to see the Reddit page on a private'd sub remember Google has a cached page feature.

Paste the actual reddit link here and it should fetch from google cache - https://cachedview.com

Or you could just add "cache:" right before a link.

Re: The Reddit blackout has left Google barren and full of holes

#314
post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's even worse for only the metric by which the efforts of a group should be indexed for the masses. But people use discord for group conversation and the goal is not the create content for consumption but to do the things the group does as a semi-private organization. Discord seems like a massive win on some dimensions of privacy even with the drawback of not being able to index all the things. I agree discord is b…

Exactly! There is a market for something that more closely replicates conversations in a bar. Sometimes you want to be a blow-hard and say some crazy shit without it being indexed for all eternity.

It already is indexed, though. Any member of a server can run a search over the messages. Granted, it's not a particularly great search, but it's there.

Re: The Reddit blackout has left Google barren and full of holes

#315
post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Take a look at FlaskBB, it's kind of like those but modern and written in Python. Also it needs devs. https://github.com/flaskbb/flaskbb

Flask is generally a joy to use.

I flip between Flask and Django depending on what I'm doing.

If I want to make something "from scratch" I do it with Flask, if I've got an existing database (or something that can be wrangled into a database) I do it in Django.

Re: The Reddit blackout has left Google barren and full of holes

#316
post #75

The problem is that the open internet is dying. What used to be blogs and forums now is Reddit. Tens of thousands (hundreds of thousands?) of communities that had their own wiki, blog, forum, ... are now reduced to be a Subreddit. The Internet has become fragile. One service goes down and everybody suffers. If the top 10 services went down most people would think that there is no Internet at all. E-Mail is the last s…

Honestly I’d LOVE to revert to the old phpBB or vBulletin forum days There’s literally no reason why not and it’s never been cheaper to run

I'm lucky enough that my main hobby's primary discussion era is an old-school phpBB, and it's likely not going to migrate to Reddit or Facebook or somewhere else. It's great. Content is fully indexed by search engines and can be easily searched using those engines. Decades of FUD from cloud providers and centralized services have convinced so many that hosting your own server is difficult and expensive and scary and just not something normal people do. Online communities really need to get back to self-sufficiency.

Re: The Reddit blackout has left Google barren and full of holes

#317
post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Discord knows better, this is by design. Their investors would run screaming if they knew what was in those chat logs. The lack of searchability is their biggest defense against being hauled in front of Congress because the public just isn't aware of how much of the platform is extremism.

That's too bad, because a lot of open-source projects have moved to Discord, and it's an absolute pain that every time I want to search, I have to 1. login and 2. join yet another Discord server.

I find it easy to mute and put the ones I don't frequent often in a folder and only go there when I need to. I only actively visit and contribute to 2 Discord servers but that number might grow if the reddit communities stay dark (and I don't blame them for doing so).

I would take Discord over Slack or Gitter any day of the week. Slack only retains 90ish days of text chat which makes it an awful platform for open-source projects to use. It hurts my brain that CNCF and Kubernetes use this as a platform. At least in Discord I can search thru years of content and discover a discussion instead of asking the same questions over and over.

Re: The Reddit blackout has left Google barren and full of holes

#319
post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've seen some IRC channels archive their chat as search-able HTML pages that are also indexed by search engines. Wish Discord servers would do something similar.

Discord knows better, this is by design. Their investors would run screaming if they knew what was in those chat logs. The lack of searchability is their biggest defense against being hauled in front of Congress because the public just isn't aware of how much of the platform is extremism.

And not just extremism, but problematic. A cursory search of Disboard will find all sorts of sexual/BDSM communities that are openly aimed at minors.

Re: The Reddit blackout has left Google barren and full of holes

#320
post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's even worse for only the metric by which the efforts of a group should be indexed for the masses. But people use discord for group conversation and the goal is not the create content for consumption but to do the things the group does as a semi-private organization. Discord seems like a massive win on some dimensions of privacy even with the drawback of not being able to index all the things. I agree discord is b…

Pithy retort: that must be a parallel dimension to suggest Discord is good for privacy. Letting ideas float around a chatroom is good but communities hopefully have motivated members to consolidate and publish some of the good ideas for posterity because we will lose them over time. Some places do a better job, but a lot of content is straight up locked out from the wider internet where users are required to give awa…

There's different notions of privacy. Discord isn't going to protect you from someone deliberately stalking your posting history, but it is more private in the sense that it is, first and foremost, comprised of communities who want to manage who participates. A Discord server is the equivalent of a local pub with a specific audience.

And in that context not being crawlable is very much a good thing because communities require spaces that are to some extent fenced off, nobody holds a meeting in a train station. In an age were publicly scrapable information becomes subject to automated surveillance or vacuumed up by AI systems it's not surprising and justifiable that people move to walled gardens.

Not to mention that a lot of discord chats are conversational. And the default for casual conversations is that they're ephemeral, for good reasons. When you have a chat in the analog world, you don't expect that to be scanned by everyone for posterity.

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