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Karl Guttag on Apple Vision Pro (Part 1)

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Re: Karl Guttag on Apple Vision Pro (Part 1)

#41

Post by the_gipsy »

mjamesaustin wrote: post #24
MuffinFlavored wrote: post #10

> In many ways, the AVP can be seen as the “Meta Quest Pro done much better.” If you are doing more of a “flagship/Pro product,” it better be a flagship. Ok. I'm fine with being told "you aren't the target audience" but... name 5 things I would do with it if I bought one. Why would I put it on my face/what would I gain from it? Gaming? Productivity? What can it do that a screen + monitor + mouse + keyboard / iPad / i…

What could the original iPad do that an iPhone couldn't? Basically zero, other than have a larger screen. Different screen size ends up making a significant difference in how you use a product. Vision Pro presents theoretically unlimited size and number of screens to do categorically the same kind of things you'd do on an iPad/iPhone/Mac. As someone who likes to work with multiple monitors, at the least I see this en…

So that iPad made reading or watching videos better, when you don't wanna use a laptop/pc/tv.

Give me one thing that those goggles let me do or do better right now.

Re: Karl Guttag on Apple Vision Pro (Part 1)

#42

Post by krger »

satvikpendem wrote: post #34
drewbeck wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> not geared towards productivity? The fact that to run VSCode Productivity !== coding. Coding is a subset of productivity, but most jobs do not require coding. I get that you want this to be something else, but a lot of people are incredibly productive on iPads today, and adding the ability to mirror your MacBooks screen means that this platform absolutely has a future in productivity. HN has a lot of this attitude…

That's great for those people but yes, for devs, it's not a real replacement for a MacBook, even though it literally has the same chip inside. It's a shame.

>That's great for those people but yes, for devs, it's not a real replacement for a MacBook, even though it literally has the same chip inside.

Good thing Apple isn't marketing it as a replacement for a MacBook then.

Re: Karl Guttag on Apple Vision Pro (Part 1)

#43

Post by bee_rider »

satvikpendem wrote: post #19
ladberg wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can do VSCode Remote in a browser on an iPad so I'm not too worried. I think the bigger factor is that Apple is trying to push this as more of a workplace productivity machine than the iPad, so third party developers will hopefully be more amenable to porting those types of apps than they were to iPadOS.

> You can do VSCode Remote in a browser on an iPad I'm sorry but that's exactly the problem, I want the app natively (well, as native as you can get with Electron), executing code that I have on my file system. I don't want to execute remotely through a browser.

Your requirements seem pretty specific, it might just not be the device for you.

Re: Karl Guttag on Apple Vision Pro (Part 1)

#44

Post by satvikpendem »

krger wrote: post #42
satvikpendem wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's great for those people but yes, for devs, it's not a real replacement for a MacBook, even though it literally has the same chip inside. It's a shame.

>That's great for those people but yes, for devs, it's not a real replacement for a MacBook, even though it literally has the same chip inside. Good thing Apple isn't marketing it as a replacement for a MacBook then.

Of course it isn't, they want you to buy a MacBook alongside, that's my entire point. They are artificially restricting one device in order to make you buy their other devices. It's the same story as the iPad, it also has the same chip as the Mac but they restrict apps like IDEs so people instead have to buy two devices. If it were a Surface-like product instead, with full macOS, I'd have bought an iPad in a heartbeat.

Re: Karl Guttag on Apple Vision Pro (Part 1)

#45

Post by satvikpendem »

bee_rider wrote: post #43
satvikpendem wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You can do VSCode Remote in a browser on an iPad I'm sorry but that's exactly the problem, I want the app natively (well, as native as you can get with Electron), executing code that I have on my file system. I don't want to execute remotely through a browser.

Your requirements seem pretty specific, it might just not be the device for you.

How is it "pretty specific?" Any developer is running code locally (unless you work for Google or some company where they have remote codespaces). Why should I not want a headset that instead serves as a replacement for a laptop?

Re: Karl Guttag on Apple Vision Pro (Part 1)

#46

Post by steveBK123 »

liquidise wrote: post #20
MuffinFlavored wrote: post #10

> In many ways, the AVP can be seen as the “Meta Quest Pro done much better.” If you are doing more of a “flagship/Pro product,” it better be a flagship. Ok. I'm fine with being told "you aren't the target audience" but... name 5 things I would do with it if I bought one. Why would I put it on my face/what would I gain from it? Gaming? Productivity? What can it do that a screen + monitor + mouse + keyboard / iPad / i…

I only need to name 1 for myself: i travel a lot and work from a laptop often. AVP feels like an obvious choice for development if it delivers on the vision (heh). Working without a dedicated desk space, laptop stand, separate monitor, etc, laptop work just pales in productivity and comfort to my multi-monitor desk setup at home. A wearable that acts as if i have floating monitors anywhere sounds like a massive win,…

Funnily enough, if it works for this use case well -

From the perspective of “it can give you an experience as if you have multiple large displays” and costs the same as ~2 Apple displays, plus comes with compute built in.. it’s actually a steal.

Re: Karl Guttag on Apple Vision Pro (Part 1)

#47

Post by krger »

ohgodplsno wrote: post #8
satvikpendem wrote: post #7

Anyone else worried that Vision Pro will simply be a large iPad and not macOS like, ie closed app store and not geared towards productivity? The fact that to run VSCode you need to mirror your own Mac simply boggles the mind, it's like Apple wants to cut off the potential of the device at the knees simply to continue selling services.

Why worry ? It's already guaranteed to be the case. Apps will not have direct access to the cameras, meaning that the Vision Pro is destined to keep being a toy fully steered by Apple. You also cannot access any depth information, or anything that would make it useful as a general 3D computing device. You can't access eye tracking, so say good bye to foveated rendering. And since you can't have foveated rendering, we…

>Apps will not have direct access to the cameras

A restriction for which I am thankful.

>Vision Pro is destined to keep being a toy fully steered by Apple.

I trust Apple a lot more than I trust the "let's figure out how to fingerprint users based on how they scroll and other metrics and use it to sell ads" crowd.

>You can't access eye tracking,

A restriction for which I am thankful.

>so say good bye to foveated rendering.

Vision Pro does foveated rendering.

Re: Karl Guttag on Apple Vision Pro (Part 1)

#48

Post by TillE »

easytiger wrote: post #39
mellosouls wrote: post #5

Excellent article, I look forward to the updates. As a Meta Quest 2 owner, and Android user, I'm a bit of an Apple-skeptic when it comes to their pricing on some products; but I have to acknowledge that while the Vision Pro seems mad-expensive on first reveal, it doesn't seem to be poor value going by the previews and specs, which seems to match the article's conclusions. That is where the Quest Pro seems to have fai…

How do you game on it?

Developers would have to port their games, but I don't see any reason why it wouldn't work. The only real obstacle is a lack of first-party input devices.

Re: Karl Guttag on Apple Vision Pro (Part 1)

#49

Post by satvikpendem »

ConanRus wrote: post #37
satvikpendem wrote: post #7

Anyone else worried that Vision Pro will simply be a large iPad and not macOS like, ie closed app store and not geared towards productivity? The fact that to run VSCode you need to mirror your own Mac simply boggles the mind, it's like Apple wants to cut off the potential of the device at the knees simply to continue selling services.

It's the same concern I heard before the 1st Ipad announce: we want a MacOs on a tablet! No you don't. Coz MacOs apps knows nothing about the touch screen interface. And they know nothing about VR also, so nothing is changed here.

Do you realize that they all run the same kernel and OS underneath that's then restricted via feature flags? macOS can absolutely understand touch since it's all the same. This is also why their Continuity feature works so well, or why iOS apps can run natively on macOS.

Re: Karl Guttag on Apple Vision Pro (Part 1)

#50

Post by drewbeck »

satvikpendem wrote: post #45
bee_rider wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your requirements seem pretty specific, it might just not be the device for you.

How is it "pretty specific?" Any developer is running code locally (unless you work for Google or some company where they have remote codespaces). Why should I not want a headset that instead serves as a replacement for a laptop?

You can want whatever you want. It’s not a failure of apple that they don’t serve your specific need, however. They just built a product for different people.
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