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Reddit Doubles Down

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Re: Reddit Doubles Down

#431

Post by fud101 »

nbacircleerk wrote: post #251
jjulius wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure it does. If "casual users were not happy to find out that they would have nowhere to discuss the most important game of the season" (an assertion that is incredibly laughable) and were really that upset, there could've been an r/NBA2 in half a second - far easier than recreating Reddit itself or making their own league. And yet, nobody did that...

> And yet, nobody did that... /r/nbacirclejerk, /r/basketball, /r/cfb, /r/heat and /r/denvernuggets hosted the game threads for last night game. Honestly really digged the experience on the /r/nbacirclejerk game thread.

damn i had no idea hah. but im not missing reddit, never will go back now. fuck em

Re: Reddit Doubles Down

#432

Post by somsak2 »

2-718-281-828 wrote: post #413
whatsuphotdog wrote: post #40

I love that the CEO calls the users voicing their displeasure "noise". When those users voice opinions on other things, it's called content. When those users voice their opinions against reddit, it's noise. Hoffman continues to display a fundamental misunderstanding of what Reddit is. The very people that give your platform its value are revolting against you, and you think it's noise. What's your product? What do yo…

> Hoffman continues to display a fundamental misunderstanding of what Reddit is. hoffman founded reddit ... together with btw aaron swartz.

this is a well known fact that he trumpets all the time. founders getting out of touch with their products isn't anything new.

Re: Reddit Doubles Down

#433

Post by flutas »

shagie wrote: post #309
nocoiner wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eh, at some threshold, of course a lower price would have changed the outcome. It sounds like the Apollo dev thought API costs came in at 10-20x what he’d been expecting. I think there’s obviously a huge difference between paying Reddit, say, 50 cents of a $3 net payment (assuming a sub for the app is $5/month) and having a $5/user/month cover charge to Reddit as the price of admission, and then having to build a via…

The average user doing ~300 api calls per day would do about 9000 calls per month and at $0.24/1k calls would be $2/user Apollo also does polling of the message box for each user for push notifications ( https://github.com/christianselig/apollo-backend/blob/main/i... ) which currently has a rate of 1/minute/user. This is another 1.4k calls per day and changes the price that would be paid. Current rate: https://github…

Not sure why you're making up stuff still and cherry picking constants to try and pretend you're right.

Those rates are BEST CASE. I linked the code directly to you that actually does it in your previous comment.

They queue 100[0] users every 5[1] seconds to pull their status, they then update the next check timestamp in the db to be at now + the constant you quote[2] which they use for rate limiting, so at most once per minute.

So unless they have under 1,000 users, then it won't ever be "every single minute."

[0]: https://github.com/christianselig/apollo-backend/blob/b992d2...

[1]: https://github.com/christianselig/apollo-backend/blob/b992d2...

[2]: https://github.com/christianselig/apollo-backend/blob/b992d2...

Re: Reddit Doubles Down

#434

Post by bshipp »

n1c wrote: post #410
bshipp wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they're broke than they should have first stopped self-hosting videos and images. I can't believe their API call cost is more excessive than their video and image hosting costs.

There's a subtlety that seems to be getting skipped over quite frequently. It's not "the cost of the API call". It's "the opportunity cost of that user not coming to our main website".

I agree, but if we are incorporating the opportunity cost of free-riding 3rd-party users than Reddit also needs to incorporate the opportunity cost of losing thousands of unpaid moderators who keep the site running. I can't imagine the math will be favorable.

Re: Reddit Doubles Down

#435

Post by rgavuliak »

bshipp wrote: post #263
ASalazarMX wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems like they realized the value of user content for AI training too late, and are trying to hamfistedly lock down the golden egg goose for their upcoming IPO.

Pushshift.io used to host a complete repository for Reddit. I think there were archives on the internet archive as well. There are numerous torrents with terabytes of text content for training AIs. Perhaps they might lock it down going forward, but language training horse fled and was eaten by coyotes a decade ago.

More (and more recent) content will be need for further training of the models for them to stay competitive and up to date.

Re: Reddit Doubles Down

#436

Post by rgavuliak »

lokar wrote: post #154
pclmulqdq wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not so sure - I assume the hyper-valuable users are actually generally using 3rd party apps, so forcing them back on the platform could raise their CPI enough to look good at an IPO rather than terrible.

They have to be much less than 1%, I don’t t see how the math works. Views (and ad clicks) are what matter, not posts and comments. They only need the posts and comments to have something to stick an ad next to.

In online games and newspaper paywalls you have on average 1-3 % valuable users. Even if Apollo made up less than 1%, those are probably the valuable ones so it could be a good chunk of those.

Re: Reddit Doubles Down

#437

Post by johnnyanmac »

revelio wrote: post #418
zerohp wrote: post #386

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The president demonstrated it from 2016 to 2020. We are just seeing the copycats now.

Trump is to blame for the behavior of the company that banned Trump's subreddit? Is there anything this man can't be blamed for?

Did Spez ban trump's sub or did Reddit?

There are inevitable more than one Spez at Reddit, but I doubt all 2000+ employees are like that.

Re: Reddit Doubles Down

#438

Post by johnnyanmac »

nunez wrote: post #397
a2tech wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They have a $4/month product ALL ready that removes ads and gives you more features. Making that a requirement to use the API is by FAR the simplest and most profitable option. Its also more profit then they're proposing to get from their API charges

I would have had no issue paying $10/mo for the Reddit API. Wouldn't have even thought about it. I'll go out on a limb and say that most Apollo/3P users would've done the same thing. Really sucks that they chose death instead.

TBH I would have and I think many others would hesitate as well. $10/month is enough to the point where I would consider simply sticking to the desktop site.

for $10/month I'd expect more quality control in communities, and my experience from years of browsing doesn't make me optimistic that my money would improve that.

Re: Reddit Doubles Down

#439

Post by johnnyanmac »

refulgentis wrote: post #424
Prickle wrote: post #379

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is an incredibly disingenuous take. First, no it is not 3$. Apple takes a 30% cut, and requires a yearly fee to keep the app on the store. There is also a separate server cost, and a cost associated with paying an engineer. The actual cost is 5 dollars. Second, there is only one single month to make all changes. Pricing was announced only 30 days prior. That means payment setup, subscription changes, app update…

This is an incredibly disingenuous take. ;) - $3/user is the Apollo author’s projected costs. Dunno what the rest of that means. “The App Store charges 30%!!!” simply isn’t relevant other than for devs projecting anything that’s hurt them over the last decade into this story - What are “all the changes”? My understanding is he’d release an update with a new API key with a CC attached. - If it’s gravely important that…

>Why is it impossible to give a finite list of customers a refund in 30 days? Again, isn’t he doing it anyway?

if that's all you got out of the comment, you clearly aren't trying to see the POV of the app developer. He's under no obligation to keep working for a company that has at this point slandered him behind his back and he can shut down his app whenever he wants.

You are free to judge him but I don't think he's losing sleep over internet comments trying to claim he is disingenuous. Personally, I see no fault on his end, especially when Reddit is dealing the cards to begin with.

Re: Reddit Doubles Down

#440

Post by johnnyanmac »

perrohunter wrote: post #297
CommitSyn wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or they're broke and reddit is soon to be bankrupt. But even so, if they had just said that, the outcome would be so much different. Because as of now it seems like they're fucking people over for the sake of fucking them over.

How is charging for an API which costs them money "fucking people over"?

Giving 30 days notice for people using the API to adjust their entire revenue model. 4 months after saying "hey don't worry we're not going to charge for the API this year".

This isn't just about an API becoming paid. It's clear they want to phase out 3rd party apps without saying it out loud.

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