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Reddit Doubles Down

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Re: Reddit Doubles Down

#321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anyone else remember the giant exodus from Digg.com to Reddit? No one I know talks about Digg.com any more. But hey, maybe it is profitable.

Due to some quirk of when and how I used the Internet, I not only never used Digg but have only really heard of it in relation to the exodus you mentioned. So, interestingly, I don't remember the exodus but I also feel like people talk about Digg.com all the time (as a cautionary tale).

Digg was a social bookmarking site like Reddit. It originally ran on user submission of links, user voting, and then user comments on those links. It had a separate slew of problems than Reddit does today but it did have a similarity in laughably myopic and user despising management.

Digg decided that taking user submissions didn't make them enough money so they changed the model to letting sites pay to submit links. Digg basically turned into PRWire with a comment section.

This and other issues pissed off a lot of users. Then there was a massive protest where all the submissions and comments said go over to Reddit. Reddit's user base ballooned with former Digg users. Digg went forward with its stupid submission changes and a significant percentage of users stayed on Reddit and Digg became a ghost town of PR submissions and astroturf comments.

Like Reddit the value of Digg existed almost entirely in its user base. Once the users left there was no utility left in the site. It was a darling of "crowd sourced" content so without the crowd there was no content.

Re: Reddit Doubles Down

#322

Every website, including Reddit, already has an API you don't need to pay extra for. It's called HTTP and HTML. Don't let anyone fool you into thinking that you need permission to choose what user-agent to access a site with; that's what the truly open Web is about.

reddit hides a ton of data unless you also run javascript.

Re: Reddit Doubles Down

#323
post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

/r/nba2 exists. It was created 10 years ago.

I mean, I guess I assumed nobody had created an alternative NBA subreddit during the drama that OP highlighted - my fault for being flippant. If anything, the fact that r/NBA2, and a bunch of other similar subs that a flagged comment mentioned in response to me, already exist only further highlights the absurdity of the claim that there's nowhere to discuss the game if r/NBA is blacked out.

A thousand people create alternative NBA subs and discussion boards every day. How will everyone know which exact one of them to go to?

If you think the solution to blocking a sub (or all of Reddit) is "a hundred million people can just all decide to go somewhere else the next day", you fundamentally misunderstand how the community and network effect works.

Re: Reddit Doubles Down

#324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My personal (cynical) bet is that Huffman actually understands what Reddit is better than us, and Reddit will be just fine after this. To be completely honest, if a two-day blackout is proven to be the most serious "protest" the community can do, I'll buy Reddit stock when it IPO.

I agree. I think that this is a turning point for Reddit but not towards failure: they’re ditching the hardcore nerd audience that made them. But they’ve long since outgrown that audience and will likely (as a company) do just fine without them. As a community there will be a notable loss.

I think that started with the redesign. It's so weird looking at some of the default subs, just pure trash imo, yet there are still the incredibly diverse, bespoke communities ranging from knitting to woodworking. Users in those subs are the real losers out of this.

Re: Reddit Doubles Down

#325
Man....I remember when reddit was fun.

A while ago, I was moderator for a small community of subreddits and decided that the leadership shenanigans had gotten to me, so I left all those subs behind and just became a lurker. Nothing reddit leadership has done has made me regret that choice.

But it's sad, anybody remember Team Periwinkle? Cake day? Getting trophies? Reddit used to distribute their source code, and have real hackers running it. Now it's just another shitty business model looking to be exploited. I get it, Reddit isn't a charity and isn't free to run, it is a business, but now it's just going to be a shit one.

You know what would have still sucked but still ended up working?

"Hey 3rd party app makers, you're part of the Reddit community. Running this site and service is expensive, so here's what's going to happen. In 12 months we're going to be reworking our revenue model and it will impact how you connect to us. Let's start to chat about it now and decide what's best for this part of our community.

Be prepared, we're going to have to figure out how to make money but we want you to be part of the solution. Anything is on the table but here's what we're thinking today:

1. Limit free API access to a cap per day - easier to implement, but will not create revenue for anybody and will cause us to have to build anti-abuse systems.

2. Run more ads. We think we'd probably have to figure out a way for your apps to be part of our ad network. So possible terms of service (TOS) for you might be that you'll have to pass ads through according to some yet to be decided display standard. You won't get any money from it, and it might make your user experience worse. We might consider extending our TOS to also let you run ads in your own apps and mix them in with ours. It's your app, and it would be your decision.

3. Charge for API access. We want to target making $x/million API calls. You would have to figure out how to pay for this. One options is to charge your users a monthly fee and pass it through. Our experience say that while this would reduce your user count, it would also reduce your support load. We'd be open to letting you charge $x+y/million and you keep the $y or perhaps we charge some fee like $x+y and you keep z% percent. On our free site we'd probably still run ads, which would encourage users to your apps for a "premium" experience. There's several models here and we haven't decided yet -- but it could be win-win for everybody who acts as a "portal" into our service. As a show of good faith, we'd probably kill our own organic mobile app to further let you differentiate yours.

4. Some mix of the above, maybe with tiers.

Contact us, we're going to start setting up discussions for the next 2-3 months, make a decision within 6, and then give you 6 months to modify your apps and work out payment methods and so on."

Re: Reddit Doubles Down

#326

> A number of Snoos have been working around the clock, adapting to infrastructure strains, engaging with communities, and responding to the myriad of issues related to this blackout I find a CEO referring to their employees as 'Snoos' to be offputting personally. I'm sure it's meant to be a fun and inclusive term but the guy is sending out a pretty serious email that ends in, "I am sorry to say this, but please be m…

Lots of tech companies have silly names for their employees, I think it might have originated with “Googlers” but some companies (like Reddit) went a little further. (“Snoo” is also the name of the little Reddit alien mascot.)

I believe GitHub employees are called Hubbers

Re: Reddit Doubles Down

#327
post #255
post #132

All they had to do was make API access require Premium. $4/month and all the pieces were laying there. Thats twice as much monthly profit as their current super inflated API pricing would bring them for the same users. Reddit made themselves a real mess here and it's all SO stupid.

No shit hey. Fucking rocket appliances apparently. Charge me $4 for premium and give devs 3 months to implement the changes or something. It feels so blindingly simple that this who mess is mind numbingly stupid.

It's stupid but you have to keep in mind Reddit's execs are liars. The API users aren't costing Reddit money and they're not the reason they have profitability problems.

Reddit wants to wrap all their content in a mobile app. There they can force ads without the option to blocking, they can force (paid for) "suggestions", and they can vacuum up all that sweet personalized data from every user.

Re: Reddit Doubles Down

#328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most likely it's about control, not financials.

I found it interesting that spez admitted in his call with the apollo dev that the actual hosting cost for the api calls were pennies compared to the 'opportunity cost' of not having users use the official app. He basically admitted that harvesting data via the app and selling it to advertisers was reddit's bread and butter now.

People have to realize, from a standpoint of "how do I make all of the money?", this is the only way these sites can survive in a world of reasonably-high interest rates.

There are only so many people who would be willing to pay $x for a Reddit subscription. Would the quality of content and discussion go up? Absolutely, but that's not what Huffman and his VC backers care about. They care about _scale_, and if you can collect the information of every person who goes so far as to even click on a Reddit post that's a result in a Google search, you can have near-infinite scale. At that point, the question isn't "how do I get Joe Schmoe to pay for a Reddit subscription?", it's "How many ads can I cram into every GET request made to Reddit and maximize the price advertisers are willing to pay to be in that GET request?"

Re: Reddit Doubles Down

#329
post #38

I don't really understand why it had to be this way. It's so easy to think of other ways this could have been handled. Even just announcing the same change with 6 months of lead time rather than 1 month would have gone over better. Or boil the frog and gradually introduce API restrictions. It's as if the CEO is purposefully being as belligerent as possible to rile people up.

I suspect that spez really looks up to Elon Musk as an idol and decided to bury his head in the sand and go the way of twitter.

Re: Reddit Doubles Down

#330
post #49

It will be interesting to see the eventual outcome of this saga. I have already seen backlash against the backlash in many subs. /r/NBA, which was mentioned in the article, had a poll one day before the blackout and made the decision based on 8000 votes (out of a total 8+ million members). Casual users were not happy to find out that they would have nowhere to discuss the most important game of the season, and the mo…

Moderators _seriously_ underestimate how hated they are. At this point I'd rather the admins just take back the subs and let the voting system sort it out. Like how it did for the first 10 years of the site's life.

You are seriously underestimating how much garbage is in the mod queue.
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