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Private equity is buying everything from vet offices to tech conglomerates

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Re: Private equity is buying everything from vet offices to tech conglomerates

#31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lobbying/Bribery seems more egregious than investing. At least investing has some economic forces that cause people to conserve resources and allocate them better than prior. Lobbying/Bribery is just pure corruption. The medical industry is so extravagant because they are among the top lobbyists of all time. Only the entirety of real estate or all US businesses(chamber of commerce) can even compete with merely the Am…

> At least investing has some economic forces that cause people to conserve resources and allocate them better than prior. Not when the money is basically free, e.g. the last decade of money policy. PE has always been around, so why is it hated now? Probably the forces that would normally keep it in check, namely, a cost to capital and a competitive business environment (as opposed to monopolies and natural monopolie…

PE has been hated since at least the 1980s, when capital was very far from free.

Re: Private equity is buying everything from vet offices to tech conglomerates

#33

I’ve pushed back on previous discussions on here about PE because of lack of detail about wrong doings, however this article is excellent. “dividend recapitalization” seems absolutely insane for anyone running a business.

Yes: https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/greed-an...

> Romney and Bain avoided the hostile approach, preferring to secure the cooperation of their takeover targets by buying off a company’s management with lucrative bonuses. Once management is on board, the rest is just math. So if the target company is worth $500 million, Bain might put down $20 million of its own cash, then borrow $350 million from an investment bank to take over a controlling stake.

> But here’s the catch. When Bain borrows all of that money from the bank, it’s the target company that ends up on the hook for all of the debt.

> This business model wasn’t really “helping,” of course – and it wasn’t new. Fans of mob movies will recognize what’s known as the “bust-out,” in which a gangster takes over a restaurant or sporting goods store and then monetizes his investment by running up giant debts on the company’s credit line. (Think Paulie buying all those cases of Cutty Sark in Goodfellas.) When the note comes due, the mobster simply torches the restaurant and collects the insurance money. Reduced to their most basic level, the leveraged buyouts engineered by Romney followed exactly the same business model. “It’s the bust-out,” one Wall Street trader says with a laugh. “That’s all it is.”

Re: Private equity is buying everything from vet offices to tech conglomerates

#34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mostly agree with this. I would say a lot of what is wrong with America is that corporation laws allow this kind of thing. There are other ways. Nobody thinks Germany is an economic backwater and they require, I believe in large companies, for employees to have a role in the management of the company [1]. There are also co-ops like the Mondragon Coop in Spain[2]. Some states have co-op laws but are mostly used by f…

What I know about PE firms in Europe, they mostly operate the same way as in the US. There are plenty of PE firms and in general to me it feels like they are more popular here than US actually, as with LP's they are perceived as lower risk. What I don't understand from the article, is how the PE firm is able to shift the debt from the buyer to the firm. That shouldn't be possible in any jurisdiction I know a little b…

Debt can be acquired so long as there's a counterparty willing to lend it. Banks can be convinced to pony up a lot the cash because the business will often have scrap value if all else fails and they can secure themselves a very senior tranche to get that scrap value if everything goes belly up. The unsecured tranches are often marketed directly by PE firms to suckers otherwise known as investors. They like to do lots of little things to make the investor feel better like being able to convert debt to equity at highly attractive rates ("if we IPO you'll make squillions!") but for the investor they might as well be buying a lottery ticket.

Re: Private equity is buying everything from vet offices to tech conglomerates

#35
post #7

It's a shame what's happened to my local HVAC contractor. It used to be a great local operation where a real person picked up when you called. But lately, after a private equity group took over, it's all automated calls and foreign call centers. The personal touch is gone and, sadly, their service quality has taken a noticeable hit. It's just not the same anymore.

A few years back I had to run door dash orders to pay the bills. I noticed then that distribution of labor removes a lot of the spirit and purpose behind the work.

No one at the call center is enjoying the satisfaction of a job well done, it is complete detached. I'm sure the laborers are pushed hard to high quotas and have zero time to follow up with customers.

I think we need to back to owning the entire system if we are going to have better services, better profits and satisfied employees.

Re: Private equity is buying everything from vet offices to tech conglomerates

#37
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> At least investing has some economic forces that cause people to conserve resources and allocate them better than prior. Not when the money is basically free, e.g. the last decade of money policy. PE has always been around, so why is it hated now? Probably the forces that would normally keep it in check, namely, a cost to capital and a competitive business environment (as opposed to monopolies and natural monopolie…

PE has been hated since at least the 1980s, when capital was very far from free.

Yep. When Carl Icahn was doing it they just called it "asset stripping" and "corporate raiding" instead of using the term private equity.

Fucker made squillions off the backs of misery for hundreds of thousands of people.

Re: Private equity is buying everything from vet offices to tech conglomerates

#38

I have firsthand experience of how PE ruins startups. We were a small startup and unfortunately our founder decided to go with a PE firm rather than a VC firm for a round of funding. The latter were upfront about job cuts but the PE firm did not say anything until them took over. The founder got a good paycheck but we were left holding the bag. There was a bloodbath and they ruined the culture, the product and the mo…

Same thing happened at a company I worked at, they also constantly tell you how they are investing in the future of the company and will not be doing all of the culture destroying things that they are definitely going to do. So if you are in this position and they say it will be different, don't believe them.

Re: Private equity is buying everything from vet offices to tech conglomerates

#39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I know about PE firms in Europe, they mostly operate the same way as in the US. There are plenty of PE firms and in general to me it feels like they are more popular here than US actually, as with LP's they are perceived as lower risk. What I don't understand from the article, is how the PE firm is able to shift the debt from the buyer to the firm. That shouldn't be possible in any jurisdiction I know a little b…

Leveraged buyouts. I’ve seen them explained like a mortgage, except that doesn’t work in my head either.

I am not a PE expert but I will try to explain using the mortgage analogy. This is drastically simplified. The shoehorned part of the analogy is that a bank won't exactly lend as described below.

You take out a mortgage for a property you intend to cashflow by posting it on AirBnB. You open an LLC to do so. You put down a fraction of the price of the home, let's say 5-10% and then you do some upgrades, but you borrow against the price of the home for the upgrades, not against your own credit. Now, you start AirBnBing this very nice house out for absolute top dollar. It's nice and people love it, you have great reviews. Every time you get a payment from AirBnB, you take most of the money and move it to your personal bank account as a "management fee" or a "bonus" and you put the smallest amount possible into the mortgage and the second mortgage (the one you used to upgrade the house). Now, as the house gets more use, or you cut costs, say on having the pool cleaned, or on yard maintenance, the house goes down in quality pretty significantly, but your original AirBnB ratings are there and people are willing to pay significant sums so you continue to rake in cash, and you try to avoid maintenance as much as possible.

Eventually, the place is a run down heap, and people are leaving terrible reviews, so you stop having bookings/cashflow. Okay, now you just send the keys to the bank and say "it's your problem". They get a rundown house that has barely repaid its mortgage, and you get to keep the cash. The trick is to have moved a lot more cash into your account than you lose in the mortgage down payment.

Edit: I should add that PE firms aren't always trying to extract value at the cost of the business (sometimes they absolutely are). However, they are always incentivized to make cash flow and take maximum business risk for potentially even larger payout.

Re: Private equity is buying everything from vet offices to tech conglomerates

#40
Despite the directions the interviewer tried steering this conversation into, this is a really interesting interview.

But when it comes to the private equity roll-ups, I think everyone is missing the forest for the trees. If you are a doctor looking to retire and sell your business there is no one else right now who would buy it. The same goes for every category of "mom and pop" business in the US. Even if you could find someone experienced enough and interested in running it - that person could not afford the business.

So there is kind of a double problem happening right now. One is simply demographic - experienced business owners are retiring at a much faster rate than they are being replaced. Secondly, there is the capitalization problem. A doctor knows what his practice is worth and wants every cent he can get out of it - but the next generation of doctor is not going to be able to compete with debt financing what a PE cash-buyer can get.

In addition, there is a problem specific to medical practices - you can't just hand them over to your kid! (unless they also happened to pursue the exact same medical training you did). And in addition to this medical schools (as I have been told) are really underprepared new doctors for running a business.

Keep in mind owner-operators already get a huge income and tax incentive over PE firms. It's kind of a perfect storm that makes medical clinics such a special target vs plumbers or landscapers or whatever.

If you want clinics to stay independent and keep retiring doctors happy, we are going to have to carve out special programs or tax breaks for young doctors to buy up these businesses with debt. And keep in mind, these would be essentially subsidies for millionaires.

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