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Python+Scipy+Matplotlib vs Matlab?

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Python+Scipy+Matplotlib vs Matlab?

#1

Post by schtog »

I'm learning datamining, machine learning, image processing etc by myself now but will start uni next year probably doing the same.

I tried Octave briefly and wasn't that impressed. Ok some neat functionality and easy matrix manipulation but pretty ugly and language isn't as nice as Python. Not sure about interoperability with other tools.

I already knew Python so I naturally tried numpy+scipy+matplotlib and was literally blown away. So easy to use, really nice plotting capabilities and it is extremely convenient using a real and interactive programming language, especially when that language is Python. Being able to do everything with one tool is awesome.

I haven't tried Matlab yet because it costs money. Big minus right there obv especially since it is not exactly cheap. It is also proprietary which is a another problem. From what I have gathered it is an awesome tool though and there are huge amounts of Matlab-code out there.

Have any of you tried both? Which do you prefer and why? Do you think Scipy can take over? Python seem to be used everywhere in science; signal processing, chemistry, bioinformatics, NASA, Google etc.

I have found a library for pretty much everything for Scipy though. I mean having 10 different FFT-libs isn't exactly much of a plus, one great one is enough. So does Matlab beat Scipy on that point or not? And is Matlab much better than Octave? Different feel? Does Matlab allow easy interaction with databases and other tools?

Re: Python+Scipy+Matplotlib vs Matlab?

#2

Post by gaius »

Interesting you should say this, as this is exactly what I've been doing this week as well.

If you don't like Octave's language, you won't like MATLAB's, they're almost identical. They were both designed for engineers (I mean engineers, not computer programmers) to explore matrix models interactively, then save their work as scripts - you were never meant to use m-files for general purpose programming. MATLAB was the first GUI programming I did that wasn't just for myself.

What you're paying for with MATLAB is access to the Mathworks Toolboxes. If you need them then it's absolutely worth every penny. If you don't, Octave will do. You also get prettier graphics with MATLAB than gnuplot can do. Matplotlib is good, but it's nowhere near MATLAB, which does a heck of a lot more than plotting 2D graphs.

I think Python will get an increasing market share here because it's free and easy to use and lets you do things that are clunky in MATLAB like parsing log files (in the past I have used C or Perl to munge things into a format MATLAB will like tho' it is possible in m-files). I don't think MATLAB is in any danger tho', it does too much too well and has enormous mindshare and legacy (no-one doing civil or mechanical or aeronautical engineering cares what Google uses to show people ads - SRSLY). Think about how people happily pay for Photoshop when there's GIMP. DSP is another big MATLAB market, but (AFAIK) biologists aren't doing the matrix-heavy computations that it's best suited for.

You can get a cheap version of MATLAB when you're a student (or know a student) it used to have a limited matrix size (256*256 IIRC) but I think now it doesn't. That was sufficient for the Mech Eng stuff I was doing, but not in my 3rd year when I got into image recognition. It's really nice, definitely worth trying, your university probably already has it.

Re: Python+Scipy+Matplotlib vs Matlab?

#3

Post by wesm »

I've had a lot of luck building scientific / research tools in Python / NumPy with Matplotlib. Integrating Fortran / C / C++ code is extremely easy as well, things like Cython / Pyrex also ease that quite a bit as well.

My biggest complaint about Matlab (besides the licensing) is that it's just a horrendously bad programming language (if you can call it a language at all). Any self-respecting hacker deserves better.

Matlab you have to buy a toolbox for everything (e.g. SQL database interaction). There is not (for most applications) you could want to do that Matlab can do and Python + NumPy can't.

Re: Python+Scipy+Matplotlib vs Matlab?

#4

Post by koraybalci »

Most universities have studen license servers for Matlab afaik. And, Matlab is really really, annoyingly powerful. You've got almost anything to try your ideas, implement an academic paper. But, it is slow (execution time).

Prototype with Matlab, implement with C++. That's what I usually prefer. I am not a Python expert, just learning it. but I think it will be slower than C, and less powerful than Matlab, from my perspective of working.

Re: Python+Scipy+Matplotlib vs Matlab?

#5

Post by apgwoz »

wesm wrote: post #3

I've had a lot of luck building scientific / research tools in Python / NumPy with Matplotlib. Integrating Fortran / C / C++ code is extremely easy as well, things like Cython / Pyrex also ease that quite a bit as well. My biggest complaint about Matlab (besides the licensing) is that it's just a horrendously bad programming language (if you can call it a language at all). Any self-respecting hacker deserves better.…

> My biggest complaint about Matlab (besides the licensing) is that it's just a horrendously bad programming language (if you can call it a language at all). Any self-respecting hacker deserves better.

I second this. I found it extremely hard to work in Matlab during the day after spending hours the night before writing personal stuff in Python.

Re: Python+Scipy+Matplotlib vs Matlab?

#7

Post by apgwoz »

If you're working for personal gain, you're probably better off with the Python+ solution because it's a) cheaper, and b) translates into knowledge that can be harnessed in other applications you write in Python. You're probably unlikely to write a real application in Matlab.

If you're going to be doing work at a university, you may find reluctance from the persons you are working with as I did a few years back. The argument you'll likely get is that when you pay for Matlab, you pay for the assurance that the implementation of the tools provided is correct and therefore your research is based on a proven foundation.

I saw the argument, agreed, but disagreed in the logic presented that those contributing to Python+numpy+scipy+matplotlib didn't have a vested interest in those tools also being completely correct. Afterall, I hear NASA is using some of this stuff...

Re: Python+Scipy+Matplotlib vs Matlab?

#8

Post by dhbradshaw »

The sage project (sagemath.org) has explicitly stated that its goal is to become a viable open source alternative to Mathematica, Matlab, and Maple. To a reasonable extent, it has already reached that goal and it is progressing and changing rapidly. And it plays well with other mathematical systems (R, Octave, Mathematica, Matlab, Maple, Maxima, Magma, etc.).

sage is built as an extension to Python with both a terminal interface (extended version of ipython) and a web-based interface. It builds on Scipy and many other tools.

Anyway, it's a strong enough system that I've used it to replace both Mathematica and Matlab in my daily activities. It's FFT is similar in speed to that of Matlab (both based on the same open source software). Check it out.

Re: Python+Scipy+Matplotlib vs Matlab?

#9

Post by tel »

Matlab is, to the programmer with experience in almost any other language, a tremendous horror. The language is almost as cobbled together and inconsistent as PHP with the added bonus of being worked on almost exclusively by engineers instead of people who actually want to write programs (this coming from an engineering student here).

That being said, if you have the mathematical chops to rearrange your problem into something solvable via matrix transformations, you can probably write it quickly and elegantly in Matlab without worrying too greatly about execution speed. Better, the built in toolboxes have already solved huge (engineering) problem spaces. Code already written is better than code potentially written...

Unless you want a solution that is repeatable or more general than Matlab affords. At that point you'd be better off doing the math by hand. I feel that the Python et al and C solutions fit into this niche. Prototype the math in Matlab, implement in a language that doesn't suck.

Re: Python+Scipy+Matplotlib vs Matlab?

#10

Post by wesm »

koraybalci wrote: post #4

Most universities have studen license servers for Matlab afaik. And, Matlab is really really, annoyingly powerful. You've got almost anything to try your ideas, implement an academic paper. But, it is slow (execution time). Prototype with Matlab, implement with C++. That's what I usually prefer. I am not a Python expert, just learning it. but I think it will be slower than C, and less powerful than Matlab, from my pe…

I think you'd be surprised at how powerful NumPy is. Try timing multiplying large matrices (I can tell you who wins, and not by a small margin)

One downside is you do have to poke around for the right functions, whereas in Matlab you have all the functions sitting in your (always global) namespace.

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