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Apollo’s Christian Selig explains his fight with Reddit – and why users revolted

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Re: Apollo’s Christian Selig explains his fight with Reddit – and why users revolted

#31

Post by paddw »

googlryas wrote: post #15
redmerchant2 wrote: post #7

They buried the lede. The article suggests the shutdown was because of free API to paid API. Anyone uninformed who just click off at that point. Even when they ask about costs, it was just saying it’s “ But the issue is two fold. (1) all the devs support a paid API, but the rate is absurd according to basic math. It would charge devs over 20x what a user actually cost/were worth. Devs were willing to take on a higher…

Why does there need to be a paid API, when reddit provides all of the content over a free HTTP API to user agents already? Are these apps more than just a custom user agent?

The free API is going away

Re: Apollo’s Christian Selig explains his fight with Reddit – and why users revolted

#32

Post by CharlesW »

dabluecaboose wrote: post #5

I've gotta say, Christian comes across as really naive in this piece. > Well, it’s weird because prior to this, I almost always understood that Reddit as a company understood that they’re very community-focused, and they kind of didn’t do the bullshit corporate speak. And it was weird to kind of see this week, where they engaged in a lot more of that than I have historically ever seen them do. And it just went over……

> I can't imagine anyone seeing this as a surprise…

It was a surprise to him because (1) his relationship with them was based on Apollo, and (2) Reddit had previously placed him on the "friend" side of the frenemy line based on the community's love for Apollo and the engagement it drove.

Naive people don't record every phone call.

Re: Apollo’s Christian Selig explains his fight with Reddit – and why users revolted

#33

Post by tlholaday »

amichail wrote: post #11

What would a highly profitable Reddit look like? Why would it be bad for redditors?

A highly profitable Reddit would be one whose product was reader-paid moderation service.

https://stratechery.com/2019/a-framework-for-moderation/

Re: Apollo’s Christian Selig explains his fight with Reddit – and why users revolted

#34

Post by mynameisvlad »

jarym wrote: post #22
redmerchant2 wrote: post #7

They buried the lede. The article suggests the shutdown was because of free API to paid API. Anyone uninformed who just click off at that point. Even when they ask about costs, it was just saying it’s “ But the issue is two fold. (1) all the devs support a paid API, but the rate is absurd according to basic math. It would charge devs over 20x what a user actually cost/were worth. Devs were willing to take on a higher…

Also the normal way to introduce pricing to free services is to make it initially super-cheap so the majority will find it reasonable. Then overtime increase prices as you get a better sense of value and market dynamics. Starting high, creating a lot of negative reactions and almost killing any real market for profitable apps on your platform seems to be the opposite of smart. It’s now some governments go with taxati…

That’s assuming that you want people to use your API for third party apps.

Reddit has made it pretty clear they aren’t interested in that, despite the things they say.

In that sense, it makes perfect sense to jack up the price to a shocking level to force everyone to stop without outright banning them.

Re: Apollo’s Christian Selig explains his fight with Reddit – and why users revolted

#35

Post by 999900000999 »

I love Reddit, but the constant ads are getting worse. It's like they have no internal controls here.

Would someone really be interested in He Gets Us and Seeking Arrangements at the same time.

I'm also a bit confused as to why Reddit would target 3rd party apps like this. Most people, myself included don't bother with 3rd party apps. Unless the adds are going to get even worse soon...

Re: Apollo’s Christian Selig explains his fight with Reddit – and why users revolted

#36

Post by hifromLA »

mbStavola wrote: post #9

I can't say I've missed Reddit too much after I stopped using it. Twitter was a bit harder, but Mastodon filled that niche quite nicely. However, I don't even feel like checking out Lemmy or Kbin as a Reddit replacement, making me question how useful Reddit is for me personally. I wonder if anyone else is feeling the same during the blackout.

Reddit has greater than 0 value, but year over year it feels like there’s more noise and less signal.

Re: Apollo’s Christian Selig explains his fight with Reddit – and why users revolted

#37

Post by spiderice »

causi wrote: post #8

I would like a breakdown of Reddit's actual costs vs their proposed fees. Why isn't Reddit profitable? Is there a way to make Reddit profitable without charging for API access?

The obvious places to start are:

1. Do charge for API access. But be reasonable. Nobody is calling for free api access. Charge like 2-5x their cost of operation. Not 20x.

2. Serve ads to third party apps through the API. This is a no brainer. The fact that they aren't doing this speaks volumes about their true motives with this move.

Re: Apollo’s Christian Selig explains his fight with Reddit – and why users revolted

#38

Post by superfrank »

tedivm wrote: post #2

It absolutely amazes me how badly reddit has handled this whole situation. From the years of broken promises to moderators, the complete lack of accessibility in their own apps, and then on top of their for their CEO to not only get caught in a major lie but for him to then double down on it. As much as reddit wants to make these developers into the bad guys, every move they've made in this mess has hurt their reputa…

> then on top of their for their CEO to not only get caught in a major lie but for him to then double down on it.

> Even spez complaining about Christian recording the calls seems hollow when those recordings are what proved that spez was lying to the community

Were the calls ever posted? For the way Reddit has handled this and previous issues I definitely believe Christian over spez, but unless I missed something, right now everyone is just believing what Christian said, right?

Edit: I missed it, transcripts and recordings were posted to apollo sub. Thank you to everyone who replied with links

Re: Apollo’s Christian Selig explains his fight with Reddit – and why users revolted

#39

Post by redmerchant2 »

gs17 wrote: post #10
redmerchant2 wrote: post #7

They buried the lede. The article suggests the shutdown was because of free API to paid API. Anyone uninformed who just click off at that point. Even when they ask about costs, it was just saying it’s “ But the issue is two fold. (1) all the devs support a paid API, but the rate is absurd according to basic math. It would charge devs over 20x what a user actually cost/were worth. Devs were willing to take on a higher…

Do they really think it's reasonable? I presumed it was meant to kill off third party clients.

I’m just following Christian’s good faith interpretation.

But it’s absolutely clear it was done to kill 3P clients. It’s hilarious that certain bots would be exempt and free from the price hike. Spez called out the Haikubot by name.

Look those bots are cute. But it has to query every single sub and every single comment every few minutes to work. If Reddit truly cares about waste and inefficiency those would be the first to go. The value vs cost calculus is negative.

Re: Apollo’s Christian Selig explains his fight with Reddit – and why users revolted

#40

Post by bombcar »

haunter wrote: post #13

>users revolted tbh right now it feels like mods, and especially power-mods (who are moding several high traffic subs), are revolting. I actually enjoy this blackout because a lot of small subs became active refuge for people who doesn't really care about the whole drama. Honestly I'm curious how this will play out but I can see subs just "naturally" replacing themselves with new ones. fyi 92 of top 500 subreddits co…

https://old.reddit.com/r/wholesome/comments/148aw58/radvicea... - https://archive.ph/3qMMA

The worm is turning and the top power-mods are going to get Caesar'd.

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