Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The Cargo Cult of the Ennui Engine

medium.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

21–30 of 61 posts

Re: The Cargo Cult of the Ennui Engine

#21

Post by kayo_20211030 »

Animats wrote: post #7

"There is a solution to all of this...When we scroll through our various feeds, we need to remain consciously aware of what we’re doing and what messages we’re silently sending.' That's not likely to help. The author is asking for people to devote more attention to something trivial.

I think the operative word is "consciously". I think the author's wish is that we devote conscious thought, not merely emotional reaction, to whatever it is we're consuming. Not just what makes me feel good or bad; but rather, whether it is IMO good, or bad, or neither. If it's neither, move on; don't respond, reply, upvote, downvote, or anything else. Just move along. Let it atrophy and don't come back.

Re: The Cargo Cult of the Ennui Engine

#22

Post by angst_ridden »

jjkaczor wrote: post #16
meandthewallaby wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because of the curse of the autodidact, do note that "ennui" is pronounced "on-wee," as it comes from French ("ennui" is "boredom" in French). It is not, as I found out rather embarrassingly, "en-you-eye". Incidentally, I agree with you. While there could be some editing for length (oh well), the point was well made with a great example to start out with, and a bit of a discussion about some of the effects of being t…

'It is not, as I found out rather embarrassingly, "en-you-eye"' Don't worry, as someone whose vocabulary was extended through voracious reading, I have made several of those "fox passes" over the years... (with that being the most memorable!)

I too have made "bow-coupe" such errors.

Re: The Cargo Cult of the Ennui Engine

#23

Post by masswerk »

OliverM wrote: post #3

I like the sentiment but this could have been a tweet. If it was it wouldn't be preaching to the choir. I am being glib above but in the spirit of useful feedback, the article needs editing for length. It's not that it's badly written, I just found that it took too circuitous a route to make its point.

I, on the other hand, enjoyed a well written piece. It's both and argument and a narration, which sets about the right mood for a critique of narratives. (Also, there seems to be a tactical side to this: as we enjoy the story, spend time over and with this, as we invest energy, we also align with the piece… much like we identify with a protagonist, by the perspective of whom we reconstruct the diegetic world of a novel or a movie.)

Re: The Cargo Cult of the Ennui Engine

#24

Post by tester457 »

Animats wrote: post #7

"There is a solution to all of this...When we scroll through our various feeds, we need to remain consciously aware of what we’re doing and what messages we’re silently sending.' That's not likely to help. The author is asking for people to devote more attention to something trivial.

So it is an unsolvable problem afterall.

Re: The Cargo Cult of the Ennui Engine

#25

Post by kedean »

OliverM wrote: post #3

I like the sentiment but this could have been a tweet. If it was it wouldn't be preaching to the choir. I am being glib above but in the spirit of useful feedback, the article needs editing for length. It's not that it's badly written, I just found that it took too circuitous a route to make its point.

> If it was it wouldn't be preaching to the choir.

I'm not so sure it is. I think the target audience here are people who have already been desiring to break the cycle and might be currently more receptive to long-form content. A lot of people I know have been expressing the feeling this talks about lately, mostly due to the impending downfall of Reddit (how many people have said something along the lines of "i'm glad it's going away, that's one less thing to mindlessly scroll")

Re: The Cargo Cult of the Ennui Engine

#26

Post by toss1 »

OliverM wrote: post #3

I like the sentiment but this could have been a tweet. If it was it wouldn't be preaching to the choir. I am being glib above but in the spirit of useful feedback, the article needs editing for length. It's not that it's badly written, I just found that it took too circuitous a route to make its point.

YES

Maybe not quite a tweet, but certainly editing it down to 25%-35% of the original length would have resulted in a much higher quality article.

Which gets to the main point that he only grazed but didn't hit, and of which this article is a fine example. There is a resistance to engaging in longer-form works for exactly the same reason he derides the short form (tweets, spouts, TikTok vids, etc.) — there is no guarantee that the quality will be there, and it is a larger investment of time & effort to consume the long-form content, so the potential waste & disappointment will be greater. It's a worse risk/reward ratio than reading a tweet.

Yet, his underlying advice — to be conscious of what you consume and whether it ACTUALLY SATISFIES your needs — is valid, important, and actionable.

I've found that one of the keys is information density. It needs to be at a certain level to be worthwhile (and that level is different for different purposes). For example, I found some 20 years ago that almost all content on cable TV was far too dilute, so I cut the cord. I found that a default Twitter feed has a similarly high trash/value ratio, but this could be fixed by using carefully curated lists of high-value feeds to get high-density info much earlier (this has significantly degraded since Nov-22, I'm finding other better options such as Spoutible).

It does take conscious effort to maintain our entertainment and information feeds to be sure they actually meet OUR needs, but it is worth it.

(maybe that's the 1-tweet version?)

Re: The Cargo Cult of the Ennui Engine

#27

Post by jvanderbot »

cgio wrote: post #2

I upvoted this one but wonder whether I did it because it cunningly convinced me to consume a long form content just to eat the pellet for the fact I read it to the end. I agree with many of the statements, always keep an eye out though for the potential I am just the old man who does not get the sophistication that goes into phenomenally only cheap, thoughtless content. What if the new art is not articulated in ligh…

Reading and upvoting brings joy because it signals "I know this and am part of the solution", as much as any mildly controversial hot take.

Re: The Cargo Cult of the Ennui Engine

#29

Post by dav_Oz »

Reading through the text which implicitly and as a perlocutionary/performative act by the author is precisely intended to be not the kind of low-effort content of the evoked 'Ennui Engine', actually strengthens my perception why I would actually feel more enjoyment in the "low effort content":

The relatively long suspense of the "Cargo Cult"-like explanation at the end completely falls short of any built up expectations I had, I wouldn't have noticed a difference in the argument if it would have been left out. Instead it seems to function merely as an ornament to elicit some feeling of superiority in one's insight.

I mean if I am able to "explain" cargo cult to you it would be least expected to be cargo cult'ed by the very thing. The text touches on that briefly but suddenly rejects its humbling implications for all the facets of our life by highlighting one aspect: >its most insidious and impactful manifestations lies in entertainment and how we consume it. Where does this uncanny certainty come from?

Not to end on a negative note: Why not trying to appreciate some low-effort boredom at a time? Not something to be avoided at all cost but as an highly viscous opening space in one's rapidly passing sense of time, being mostly empty ("boring") or worn out of preconceived notions, but yet to be taken roads, train of thoughts or in some very rare cases, I'm told, for inspiration. Some appreciation for boredom goes a long way and makes oneself intrinsically less prone to the trappings of the described engine by just waiting "it" out.

Re: The Cargo Cult of the Ennui Engine

#30

Post by parpfish »

jjkaczor wrote: post #16
meandthewallaby wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because of the curse of the autodidact, do note that "ennui" is pronounced "on-wee," as it comes from French ("ennui" is "boredom" in French). It is not, as I found out rather embarrassingly, "en-you-eye". Incidentally, I agree with you. While there could be some editing for length (oh well), the point was well made with a great example to start out with, and a bit of a discussion about some of the effects of being t…

'It is not, as I found out rather embarrassingly, "en-you-eye"' Don't worry, as someone whose vocabulary was extended through voracious reading, I have made several of those "fox passes" over the years... (with that being the most memorable!)

i remember when i tried to read "oaxaca" off of a menu
Post reply on HN