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Don't use custom CSS scrollbars

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Re: Don't use custom CSS scrollbars

#191

Post by polydevil »

agos wrote: post #163
WirelessGigabit wrote: post #47

Also don't use buttons that don't show me the link I'm navigating to. If you must have a different style, style them around an `a href`, not a `button`. And actions should be buttons, not links. I'm looking at all of those cookie websites with a 'link' that says 'Confirm choices' and a button that says 'Allow all'. Instinctively we go to the button, not the link. Weirdly enough I responded on the Image send to Micros…

aria roles solve that problem easily for screen readers, so you can use buttons for navigation and text links for actions without big issues

No, they don't. Aria roles are not for making one tag to work like another. (Otherwise what is the point of having different tags with different semantics?).

Aria is for making inaccessible html more accessible. Links can not be disabled (buttons can) - so they dont rely on js to work; Buttons rely on js (except for submitting the form). There is no way to interchange one with another without sacrificing usability.

Re: Don't use custom CSS scrollbars

#192

Post by mfru »

SPBS wrote: post #112
preommr wrote: post #21

> Don't use custom CSS scrollbars Alright, I guess I'll go back to using js scrollbars instead /s I hate articles like this because they present highly opinionated solutions as something definite even though it has a narrow focus on what the author cares about. Web apps can be incredibly powerful and convenient, sometimes a scrollbar is in the middle of the page like with that codepen. In those situations, being able…

> I hate articles like this because they present highly opinionated solutions as something definite even though it has a narrow focus on what the author cares about. Whatever the author says about custom scrollbars isn't going to stop CSS-Tricks from styling their scrollbar. The article is perfectly fine because programmers are free to ignore it, and if this article convinces even one programmer to switch from a cust…

it convinced me, i am going to stop styling the scrollbar in my projects unless the designer throws a tantrum (and i cannot convince them not to)

Re: Don't use custom CSS scrollbars

#193

Post by mfru »

codedokode wrote: post #69

Modern disappearing scrollbars in Linux are an awful design: - as scrollbar in browser disappears, I cannot see the position on the page and whether it is scrollable at all - as scrollbar handle is very narrow, it is difficult to drag it You might ask, why drag the scrollbar handle? Well, when you have tens thousands of lines in the terminal, it will take a long time to scroll it using touchpad or mouse wheel.

for anyone wanting to change their scrollbars for firefox and gnome:

- in firefox there is an option to always show scrollbars (section "browsing")

- in gnome you can change the setting org/gnome/desktop/interface/overlay-scrolling to false (with i.e. dconf-editor)

Re: Don't use custom CSS scrollbars

#194

Post by Zarel »

noduerme wrote: post #172
tsimionescu wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My point was that a general "no app shall customize scrollbar look and feel" is wrong, as there are certain kinds of apps that do benefit from custom look and feel. Sure, not all games, but also games are not so entirely different from other kinds of apps. Also, I thought the specific points about CSS and how to achieve custom styling if desired are irrelevant. The arguments I was replying to were about UX, not about…

It's very hard to actually write good UX from scratch, particularly stuff like scrollbars that require all sorts of relative resizing, drag listeners, velocity methods, second and tertiary controls (keyboards, drag-selection of text) and often need to handle those things after a variety of user interactions without redrawing their content or slowing anything down by constantly remeasuring the rest of the UI. Because…

You don't have to write good UX from scratch to get non-OS scrollbars, there are CSS rules that let you style scrollbars while keeping most system scrollbar features and accessibility.

No comment on whether or not that's a good idea, though.

Re: Don't use custom CSS scrollbars

#195

Post by mfru »

jmaker wrote: post #189

Fwiw, that huge font size doesn’t invite me to actually read the text. I’d rather have custom scroll bars than try to read when there literally are just three sentences that fit on my iPhone viewport.

from the very first text on the page:

"Updating in the open

Things might look a little janky for a bit, but that’s okay! I am in the process of refreshing the design."

Re: Don't use custom CSS scrollbars

#196

Post by kristiandupont »

donkeybeer wrote: post #100
jojobas wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you extend that to buttons, text fields and all other components in general? I'd say default should be whatever the web designer wanted, if you're not agree you can always use one of the overrider plugins.

Yes 100%, apps should follow the theme for components set by the user.

Would you then also force developers to stick with the very limited set of native components, or are they allowed to make custom ones?

Re: Don't use custom CSS scrollbars

#198

Post by chiefalchemist »

tsimionescu wrote: post #118
jmbwell wrote: post #41

I recognize that web developers want full control over the user experience, usually to the point of reimplementing all of the native UI widgets provided by the user’s OS. As a user, I prefer for my OS to do things my OS does, including styling my widgets. My scrollbars, my scrolling behavior, window chrome, all of it… whether it’s good or bad or right or wrong, that’s between me and my OS. As a user, I hate when web…

First of all, the OS does not style widgets, the browser does. And scrollbars are completely different in different browsers - they have different sizes, different behavior, different look-and-feels. So either you create versions of your app which match each browser individually, or you re-style the scrollbars to look the same as the rest of the app. Thirdly, there is an obvious counter to your arguments that shows t…

> And scrollbars are completely different in different browsers - they have different sizes, different behavior, different look-and-feels. So either you create versions of your app which match each browser individually, or you re-style the scrollbars to look the same as the rest of the app.

Find me a user that sez "This experience sucks...that's the native scrollbar" and I'll give you $100. If you give me $1 for every user who is fine with the native experience they are most comfortable with. If you give me $1000 for every time a custom scrollbar isn't accessible.

Fwiw, I've never visited a site with a custom scrollbar that didn't have other UI / UX issues. The fancy scrollbar didn't makeup for those.

p.s. Gaming is a different aesthetic, a different audience, etc. It's not what should be the user-centric internet.

Re: Don't use custom CSS scrollbars

#199

Post by kossTKR »

I don't know if it was Apple that pioneered the hidden scrollbars but it's extremely stupid and makes everyones lives using a computer much harder when navigating using the GUI, - before that there was always folder size indicator right there.

Can we get back to some actual human friendly interface guidelines please? I like both Apple and designers in large parts, but they've gotten too much influence.

Also extreme whitespace designs with scrolling hell.

Give us back GUI's with lots of content on screen, it may looks dense but is much easier to navigate, and can be pretty if you follow an engineering / power user ethos.

Re: Don't use custom CSS scrollbars

#200

Post by criley2 »

tsimionescu wrote: post #118
jmbwell wrote: post #41

I recognize that web developers want full control over the user experience, usually to the point of reimplementing all of the native UI widgets provided by the user’s OS. As a user, I prefer for my OS to do things my OS does, including styling my widgets. My scrollbars, my scrolling behavior, window chrome, all of it… whether it’s good or bad or right or wrong, that’s between me and my OS. As a user, I hate when web…

First of all, the OS does not style widgets, the browser does. And scrollbars are completely different in different browsers - they have different sizes, different behavior, different look-and-feels. So either you create versions of your app which match each browser individually, or you re-style the scrollbars to look the same as the rest of the app. Thirdly, there is an obvious counter to your arguments that shows t…

The "But games don't standardize the UI" is actually a worse argument than it appears on the surface. Since every game is re-inventing the wheel, they're all making inferior wheels. UX/accessibility is so far behind OS/web in full screen games that I'm impressed that disabled people can even play most games at all. It's not uncommon to boot up a brand new game in 2023 that has the menu design and UX consideration of a late 90s website.
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