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Tesla responds to "bricking" issue

teslamotors.com

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Re: Tesla responds to "bricking" issue

#81

Post by onemoreact »

Kynlyn wrote: post #17
redthrowaway wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's really no different than early fuel-injected cars being damaged by running out of gas. The solution? Don't run out of fucking gas. That didn't stop fuel injection from becoming the dominant technology, and neither will this halt the rise of EVs.

Yes, it is entirely different. Running an early fuel-injected vehicle out of gas didn't result in a repair bill that is approximately half the purchase cost of the car. Secondly, you could leave your fuel injected car idle for months on and end without having to worry about the car slowly slurping the fuel down and then leaving you an empty. So it is much easier to run a EV out of battery power and far more expensive…

If you leave an IC car for a long period of time with 1/2 a tank of gas you can destroy the engine. Gas like everything else breaks down and if you left leave your car sitting for a long time you may need to completely drain the gas tank.

PS: Gas can noticeably degrade in as little as one month depending on ambient conditions. But, condensation is the largest risk for mid term storage. After 1 year you will probably have trouble starting the engine even after replacing the battery. And 3-7 years your probably looking at major repair work.

Re: Tesla responds to "bricking" issue

#82

Post by carbocation »

Arjuna wrote: post #63
blhack wrote: post #36

Here's one of the problems that I have with this whole thing: My iPod goes dead all the time, so does my phone, so does my laptop, my camera, my remote, my everything. I think that every single battery-powered device I've ever owned has, at some point, gone "dead" (as in it won't power on). NONE of these things have ever been completely incapacitated because of this. I've never had to replace my laptop because I let…

I mentioned this yesterday [1], but I am repeating it here, because I believe that it is a critical piece of the conversation. The consequences of failing to maintain the battery are clearly stated by Tesla Motors in the owner's manual. Is it the fault of Tesla Motors that an owner did not read, understand and follow the maintenance procedures outlined in the owner's manual? Is it not the buyer's responsibility to pe…

You can put whatever you'd like into the warning. The fact of the matter is that this is a car. When a car runs out of gas, it's not forever bricked. People will, due to a hundred years of experience, expect the same from a new car that has a different power source.

They can fix this. They have the technology.

Re: Tesla responds to "bricking" issue

#83

Post by ugh »

Arjuna wrote: post #63
blhack wrote: post #36

Here's one of the problems that I have with this whole thing: My iPod goes dead all the time, so does my phone, so does my laptop, my camera, my remote, my everything. I think that every single battery-powered device I've ever owned has, at some point, gone "dead" (as in it won't power on). NONE of these things have ever been completely incapacitated because of this. I've never had to replace my laptop because I let…

I mentioned this yesterday [1], but I am repeating it here, because I believe that it is a critical piece of the conversation. The consequences of failing to maintain the battery are clearly stated by Tesla Motors in the owner's manual. Is it the fault of Tesla Motors that an owner did not read, understand and follow the maintenance procedures outlined in the owner's manual? Is it not the buyer's responsibility to pe…

Yes, it is Tesla's fault. Clearly. You shouldn't need to read a manual to drive a car. Tesla has to make sure things behave like people expect them to behave. That's how people are going to see it, anyway. Owning up to it would be a small price to pay for Tesla.

Re: Tesla responds to "bricking" issue

#84

Post by xixi77 »

Arjuna wrote: post #63
blhack wrote: post #36

Here's one of the problems that I have with this whole thing: My iPod goes dead all the time, so does my phone, so does my laptop, my camera, my remote, my everything. I think that every single battery-powered device I've ever owned has, at some point, gone "dead" (as in it won't power on). NONE of these things have ever been completely incapacitated because of this. I've never had to replace my laptop because I let…

I mentioned this yesterday [1], but I am repeating it here, because I believe that it is a critical piece of the conversation. The consequences of failing to maintain the battery are clearly stated by Tesla Motors in the owner's manual. Is it the fault of Tesla Motors that an owner did not read, understand and follow the maintenance procedures outlined in the owner's manual? Is it not the buyer's responsibility to pe…

You are absolutely right, and Tesla has no liability for these batteries.

That does not change the fact that the thing -- and especially its' handling -- is an absolute PR disaster that WILL greatly (likely fatally) hurt any wider adoption. If Tesla thinks that saving 5x40 = 200k is worth it, they are free to do whatever they feel like.

Re: Tesla responds to "bricking" issue

#85

Post by ChuckMcM »

nuclear_eclipse wrote: post #15
ChuckMcM wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This was my take away as well but the mastery part is where it sounds like they are refuting something. Basically, having read that post three times, I conclude that if you ignore the warnings and let your battery pack completely discharge your car will be unusable, aka a 'brick'. Which completely validates the 'rogue bloggers' point that it is a 'known issue' and one to be aware of. I found the 'no oil' comparison t…

"Why doesn't the Tesla vehicle have a 'full power down' state for storage?" I assume this is because of the nature of Li-ion batteries. Even if you aren't pulling any current from the battery, they will still discharge over time, and eventually go through a chemical process rendering them unusable and/or dangerous. Having a "long-term storage" mode for the vehicle would only serve to make it more likely to happen by…

I would like to understand where you get that information.

I've had a lot of experience with rechargeable batteries over the years in doing robotics, and a variety of chemical makeups. My experience is that the "self discharge" function is the result of the anions managing to convert by one means or another not related to electron injection at the anode. The mechanisms that enable this are things like electron tunneling which are probablistic, such that the discharge curve is asymptotic toward zero charge while never achieving it. That sort of discharge does not lead to the development of dendrites in the battery which would create shorts or other hazards to recharging.

My understanding is that because the Tesla has a constant drain on the battery it can drive the battery to zero.

It would be interesting to know the answer to the question can you just disconnect the battery for storage. Not willing to invest $100,000 to find out :-)

Re: Tesla responds to "bricking" issue

#87

Post by fleitz »

Arjuna wrote: post #63
blhack wrote: post #36

Here's one of the problems that I have with this whole thing: My iPod goes dead all the time, so does my phone, so does my laptop, my camera, my remote, my everything. I think that every single battery-powered device I've ever owned has, at some point, gone "dead" (as in it won't power on). NONE of these things have ever been completely incapacitated because of this. I've never had to replace my laptop because I let…

I mentioned this yesterday [1], but I am repeating it here, because I believe that it is a critical piece of the conversation. The consequences of failing to maintain the battery are clearly stated by Tesla Motors in the owner's manual. Is it the fault of Tesla Motors that an owner did not read, understand and follow the maintenance procedures outlined in the owner's manual? Is it not the buyer's responsibility to pe…

"The consequences of failing to maintain the battery are clearly stated by Tesla Motors in the owner's manual."

For sure they are well documented in the owners manual.

However, the idea of getting a $40,000 repair bill for a car is going to turn many buyers off. Tesla should cover it for the sake of their business. If Tesla was paying for these repairs I guarantee you they'd figure out a way to prevent the failure.

Re: Tesla responds to "bricking" issue

#88

Post by gnaffle »

carbocation wrote: post #82
Arjuna wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mentioned this yesterday [1], but I am repeating it here, because I believe that it is a critical piece of the conversation. The consequences of failing to maintain the battery are clearly stated by Tesla Motors in the owner's manual. Is it the fault of Tesla Motors that an owner did not read, understand and follow the maintenance procedures outlined in the owner's manual? Is it not the buyer's responsibility to pe…

You can put whatever you'd like into the warning. The fact of the matter is that this is a car. When a car runs out of gas, it's not forever bricked. People will, due to a hundred years of experience, expect the same from a new car that has a different power source. They can fix this. They have the technology.

What kind of technology is going to keep a battery magically charged if left alone? Self-discharge is a built-in phenomenon of these batteries. The fix they have is that the car can "phone home", and that's what Tesla and other car manufacturers are doing.

Re: Tesla responds to "bricking" issue

#89

Post by joering2 »

ugh wrote: post #83
Arjuna wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mentioned this yesterday [1], but I am repeating it here, because I believe that it is a critical piece of the conversation. The consequences of failing to maintain the battery are clearly stated by Tesla Motors in the owner's manual. Is it the fault of Tesla Motors that an owner did not read, understand and follow the maintenance procedures outlined in the owner's manual? Is it not the buyer's responsibility to pe…

Yes, it is Tesla's fault. Clearly. You shouldn't need to read a manual to drive a car. Tesla has to make sure things behave like people expect them to behave. That's how people are going to see it, anyway. Owning up to it would be a small price to pay for Tesla.

> You shouldn't need to read a manual to drive a car

I thought it would be clear enough that this is not "your average car".

Everyone buying electric car would automatically know the difference. If I would buy it, first thing I would ask myself is: OK this is $50,000 piece of machinery [a car] and there is new key element here: there is no gas injection, rather electronic plug. here come the question: "how do I maintenance the battery/vehicle not to fuck this up".

Simple.

Re: Tesla responds to "bricking" issue

#90

Post by mirsadm »

revelation wrote: post #30

What is wrong with you people? You are really trying to kill off cars because you got a horse carriage at home. The horse can when coupled reproduce itself, all it takes is some food and water to keep going, its unlikely to break down, you can be flexible by changing from a one-seater to carrying raw material in the blink of an eye. Obviously, the horse is vastly superior to its new "car" competitor. Only a moron wou…

I don't think people are arguing against electric cars as such. I'd like to think most people here want to buy (or make) a product which is very easy to use and idiot proof. That is an important part of what makes a product desirable. Having a car which breaks because someone trips over a power chord while you're on holiday isn't really ideal.
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