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Intel is all-in on backside power delivery

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Re: Intel is all-in on backside power delivery

#161
post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

M2 is still quite far ahead in user-interactive tasks like browser and JVM, as shown by actual user experience in battery life. Cinebench isn't exactly the only efficiency test and Anandtech shows AMD still trailing far behind on the SPEC2017 suite (a variety of real-world applications). In desktops (Mac Studio etc) where you can run unlimited watts, yeah Apple doesn't do as well there, but the efficiency is still am…

I'm not sure if I even trust Intel/Windows at this point. The m1 macs are just so much snappier in absolutely every way imaginable than my old 11th gen Dell. My old PC would some times take minutes (!) to fully wake up from sleep, the battery drained in a couple of hours when coding, and it was sluggish the whole time compared to plugged in performance. I plan to see if I can borrow someone's 13th gen PC and use it f…

> I'm not sure if I even trust Intel/Windows at this point

It helps that it's Unix on the desktop. If you're comparing against a Windows install then I'm sure yes it will be way snappier, if you're comparing against Linux it really shouldn't be. Linux doesn't always have powersaving down quite right etc though, ofc.

The sales pitch of OS X to powerusers imo is that it's Unix on the desktop that is well-supported by the vendor and has a good ecosystem of professionally made apps. If you want to tinker there's nothing inherently bad about Linux either, but OS X actually does just work fairly well, although it's not without flaws as well. But it's faster than Windows, less amateur than Linux, actually has a user base unlike BSD. So it sits in an interesting spot - the "willing to spend money" niche.

There are a number of downsides and unpleasant aspects to OS X too, of course. But yeah, it's inherently going to be snappier than Windows if that's your reference point, *nix generally is, that's not OSX exclusive either.

People are generally more hostile to vendor hardware-software integration today than they used to be in the past, I think. Amiga, BeOS, SGI, HP-UX, Solaris, Cray, Nonstop, zSystem, CUDA... there is a lot of the computing world that runs on proprietary hardware-software integration and always has.

It has been an interesting sea change that people see open/plays nice as the default, it's an interesting sign of how copyleft has won in the long term that proprietary is seen as greedy/suspicious in general. I've been feeling that's a significant thing for a while. People are hostile to these products when sometimes it's simply paying more for a specific thing or a niche, if you want a premium *nix laptop the M1s are very nice actually.

Re: Intel is all-in on backside power delivery

#162
post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I will buy the next laptop of videocard, I'll have a look at intel gpus and linux driver situation. On my laptop I have disabled the NVidia GPU on linux because of the drivers, and use the AMD integrated GPU. Hope Intel will prioritise open source GPU drivers in the future, if they will do that sincerely it will win goodwill from me and hopefully from the community as well.

The open source ones should be fine for a laptop APU. Certainly alot better than whatever the hell Nvidia think they're doing... But yeah, for fancier features like OpenCL, Vulkan, raytracing, you'd have to use amdgpu "pro" drivers which includes many proprietary parts. Intel are definitely committed to providing open source Linux drivers for the gpus, at least based on past behaviour. They've had open source drivers…

You don’t need to use the pro drivers for Vulcan, in fact the open source RADV driver typically has better gaming performance and compatibility than the pro package.

Re: Intel is all-in on backside power delivery

#163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's to hoping a real engineer (Gelsinger) at the helm will make the difference.

It is hard to nail down exactly when things started going poorly for Intel, but they definitely weren’t going well under Krzanich (engineering background) and I have trouble blaming Swan given the dysfunctional company he inherited. If Gelsinger pulls it all together, IMO Swam deserves some credit for laying a good foundation. Intel has put out some interesting chips in the last couple years. Anyway, their dominant y…

>IMO Swam deserves some credit for laying a good foundation.

Absolutely. Yes. I was surprised how well he did during his time as CEO. Considering he is a Finance and MBA Guy.

Re: Intel is all-in on backside power delivery

#164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The open source ones should be fine for a laptop APU. Certainly alot better than whatever the hell Nvidia think they're doing... But yeah, for fancier features like OpenCL, Vulkan, raytracing, you'd have to use amdgpu "pro" drivers which includes many proprietary parts. Intel are definitely committed to providing open source Linux drivers for the gpus, at least based on past behaviour. They've had open source drivers…

You don’t need to use the pro drivers for Vulcan, in fact the open source RADV driver typically has better gaming performance and compatibility than the pro package.

If you are on linux you are happy that the game runs, you don't care about the 10% more fps you could get with the competitor GPU.

Since graphic cards do more than rasterization and lighting, it is very important to have a serious GPU with open source drivers, so that all the other open source projects related to ML can do more. I suppose my next GPU will be from intel (never thought I would say good things about them, after they almost killed the x86 cpus).

Re: Intel is all-in on backside power delivery

#165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not usually necessary, but they do in fact have this capability and do use it for testing and failure analysis (I think it is mostly used for debugging fabrication issues, where physically seeing the construction of the chip is important). The other amazing thing they can do is some level of rework: creating or removing connections to test a change or hypothesis without the expensive process of making a new mask…

Typically failed transistors are identified by the DFT scan chain. After the logic is netlisted (meaning, they create a giant list of flops, gates, and the wires that connect them), the DFT tooling adds additional inputs to each flop that let it be controlled by a sideband signal, as a giant shift register. So you can put the chip in DFT mode and set all the flops to a known pattern. Run the clock a few cycles and yo…

> I have no idea how you take a picture of a bad transistor.

Or why you would want to.

Re: Intel is all-in on backside power delivery

#166
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does "start leading" even mean? Every CPU launch, AMD is ahead and the Intel beats them or Intel is ahead and then AMD beats them. There is no leading here. There are only wins for people who want CPUs that keep getting faster, cooler, require fewer watts to run, and overall improve generation upon generation.

It's only been perennial leapfrogging for the past several years, when AMD has been doing well with their Zen processors and Intel has been on a recovery path from their 10nm failures. But before that, there were a few stretches of several years each where Intel was solidly in the lead and AMD was always an also-ran. Intel couldn't have retained their dominant market share for decades without having those long period…

@wtallis I have a question unrelated to this thread, but if you have a way to contact you privately it's about an article you wrote in 2017. Thanks
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