What happens if you leave a gasoline car for 6 months without driving it?
That is the comparison I would like to see.
Tesla responds to "bricking" issue
31–40 of 249 posts
Re: Tesla responds to "bricking" issue
#32One key issue that Tesla PR accidentally omits is whether owners are still responsible for 40K replacement if battery does indeed fail. 40K replacement basically tells user that go get a gas-powered car. If a fuel-injected engine fails, would it still cost just as much to replace? How about a BMW? or Mercedes? or Lexus?
Exactly. The first article didn't attack the fact that the "bricking" occurs nearly as much as it attached the cost of replacement.
Re: Tesla responds to "bricking" issue
#33If you don't do the basic, fundamental things to maintain your vehicle, it will no longer work. If you are, in fact, unable to grasp that, then you will pay the cost. How is this even a thing?
Um, because maintaining a gas/diesel/lpg vehicle (or a laptop) doesn't include keeping it continuously fueled up at the risk of $30K damage.
You don't keep your laptop or phone charged on penalty of battery replacement, so why pretend that you're not surprised at the Tesla result?
Re: Tesla responds to "bricking" issue
#34One key issue that Tesla PR accidentally omits is whether owners are still responsible for 40K replacement if battery does indeed fail. 40K replacement basically tells user that go get a gas-powered car. If a fuel-injected engine fails, would it still cost just as much to replace? How about a BMW? or Mercedes? or Lexus?
Of course you have to pay if you are stupid. Same thing if you destroy your gas-powered car on purpose using some other method. It is not a 'fail', which implies a manufacturing error or similar.
Re: Tesla responds to "bricking" issue
#35Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's really no different than early fuel-injected cars being damaged by running out of gas. The solution? Don't run out of fucking gas. That didn't stop fuel injection from becoming the dominant technology, and neither will this halt the rise of EVs.
> It's really no different than early fuel-injected cars being damaged by running out of gas. Barring a fuel leak, your car won't run out of gas sitting in your garage while you're on a long business trip.
Non sequitur. While the circumstances surrounding the different engines and technology are wildly different, it doesn't change the root issue: if you neglect your car, it will break, and it will be a very expensive fix.
Re: Tesla responds to "bricking" issue
#36Here's one of the problems that I have with this whole thing:
My iPod goes dead all the time, so does my phone, so does my laptop, my camera, my remote, my everything.
I think that every single battery-powered device I've ever owned has, at some point, gone "dead" (as in it won't power on).
NONE of these things have ever been completely incapacitated because of this. I've never had to replace my laptop because I let it go flat.
I'm sure some of the 5 owners who have had this happened knew that the car would go dead, but I'm sure that all of them figured that that just meant that they would have to charge it.
Tesla: here is how to fix this, and I'm asking that you do this on behalf of all electronic vehicle manufacturers (to keep people from being scared off the things by blogs like this).
Release a statement that follows the standard 3-step press release of oops:
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1) "Own it". -- We fucked up here. This was our bad. We were stupid to believe that the general public would understand that letting the battery on their car go dead would cost them $40,000. This was incredibly stupid of us, and is 100% our fault. We take responsibility for this.
2) "How we're fixing it" -- The 5 people who have had this happen have all been contacted by Tesla motors. We're shipping a tech and a battery to all of them, and all of their cars will be back on the road by next week.
3) "Why this won't happen again" -- From now on, we're including a physical battery disconnect. A device will attach to the battery terminals that is normally off, and requires that the battery be at 5%[1] charge to close. If the battery drops below this, it physically disconnects the battery from the rest of the system, and doesn't allow for any parasitic electronics to drain it further.
[1]: 5% is a made up number.
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Of course this won't happen, but a PR-spectator can dream.
Tesla: you bungled this one. Badly. You're hurting the entire EV industry. Suck it up and admit you were wrong.
Re: Tesla responds to "bricking" issue
#37If you don't do the basic, fundamental things to maintain your vehicle, it will no longer work. If you are, in fact, unable to grasp that, then you will pay the cost. How is this even a thing?
Um, because maintaining a gas/diesel/lpg vehicle (or a laptop) doesn't include keeping it continuously fueled up at the risk of $30K damage. You don't keep your laptop or phone charged on penalty of battery replacement, so why pretend that you're not surprised at the Tesla result?
If you completely discharge a battery, it will take damage.
Also, quite obviously, the batteries used in the Tesla are the same kind used in your laptop or phone, just a vastly greater number of them.
So yes, maintaining a laptop means keeping it charged.
(How do people not know this? Battery 101)
Re: Tesla responds to "bricking" issue
#38Here's one of the problems that I have with this whole thing: My iPod goes dead all the time, so does my phone, so does my laptop, my camera, my remote, my everything. I think that every single battery-powered device I've ever owned has, at some point, gone "dead" (as in it won't power on). NONE of these things have ever been completely incapacitated because of this. I've never had to replace my laptop because I let…
The problem is, I think, that a battery will discharge even if it's physically disconnected.
I do wonder why the batteries become 'bricked', though. All I've heard so far is just that 'they do', not why.
Re: Tesla responds to "bricking" issue
#39This is PR mastery. Nowhere in the release does Tesla refute that owners have "bricked" their batteries. Nowhere in the release do they say that the battery can not be bricked by leaving it for a long period without a recharge. All they say is that it would take a period of weeks for a Tesla roadster to reach 0% charge, and that the Model S has battery disconnect technology that can extend this to several months. The…
It's really no different than early fuel-injected cars being damaged by running out of gas. The solution? Don't run out of fucking gas. That didn't stop fuel injection from becoming the dominant technology, and neither will this halt the rise of EVs.
It's a little different. Replacing the fuel pump and injectors cost maybe 5% of the cost of the vehicle. Replacing roadster batteries costs 40%.
Re: Tesla responds to "bricking" issue
#40This is PR mastery. Nowhere in the release does Tesla refute that owners have "bricked" their batteries. Nowhere in the release do they say that the battery can not be bricked by leaving it for a long period without a recharge. All they say is that it would take a period of weeks for a Tesla roadster to reach 0% charge, and that the Model S has battery disconnect technology that can extend this to several months. The…
This is almost PR mastery. PR mastery would be saying that the blogger is correct before listing the facts about how insanely long you have to leave the car unplugged for the battery to become inoperable, and detailing what steps Tesla is taking to make this less of an issue (i.e. making it more prominent in their manuals, working on "deeper" sleep, etc.)
As it stands, this makes me think that Tesla likes to play with words to dance around hard truths. They also didn't mention the privacy implications of them being able to remotely track your car by GPS, which is a bit worrisome.