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“But the SEC let us go public” and other flawed arguments in Coinbase's defense

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Re: “But the SEC let us go public” and other flawed arguments in Coinbase's defense

#81

Post by everfree »

ceejayoz wrote: post #73
mthoms wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

SEC: "The vast majority of digital tokens are securities!" Anyone: "Okay then, is [insert ANY crypto here other than BTC] a security?" SEC: "We decline to answer, or give a hint, but the vast majority of digital tokens are securities!" I really don't care what happens, or how it got to this point, but this state of affairs is absolutely and unequivocally ridiculous and absurd. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VhA1dZXe…

Coinbase: “We list dozens of coins, including all the big ones. Maybe they’re all in the tiny minority?” SEC: “No. Stop playing games. You have to register.”

> Maybe they’re all in the tiny minority?

Coinbase lists less than 300 of the tens of thousands of cryptocurrencies out there - indeed a tiny minority of them, and they do have some kind of legal review process, so while that claim may well be untrue, it's not absurd on its face.

Re: “But the SEC let us go public” and other flawed arguments in Coinbase's defense

#82

Post by everfree »

ceejayoz wrote: post #80
everfree wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My understanding is that the corporate framework that securities licenses require is literally impossible to satisfy when trading current public blockchain assets. As in, to trade crypto as a security on your exchange, you would need to walk up to every dev team of every crypto you wanted to trade and kindly ask them to KYC/AML every single user of the blockchain so that you could be in compliance. In practice this j…

That’s Coinbase’s problem. Similarly, they won’t help you figure out how to insider trade, no matter how nicely you ask. “Please make our illegal business legal, the rules don’t allow it” gets a predictable reception.

If a company can't use a piece of accounting software that's gaining worldwide relevance, that's the company's problem.

If an entire country can't use a piece of accounting software that's gaining worldwide relevance, that's the country's problem.

Re: “But the SEC let us go public” and other flawed arguments in Coinbase's defense

#83

Post by [deleted] »

loveparade wrote: post #75

I don't understand how anyone can take this obviously super-biased articles from someone who has made it their career to hate anything crypto-related seriously. It's full of personal jabs and bias like "my guess is that it’s going to involve a lot of PR stunts and headline-grabbing" It's obvious that there is zero incentive here to do any real reporting or research. It's just clickbaity headlines and statements appea…

[deleted]

Re: “But the SEC let us go public” and other flawed arguments in Coinbase's defense

#84

Post by ceejayoz »

everfree wrote: post #81
ceejayoz wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Coinbase: “We list dozens of coins, including all the big ones. Maybe they’re all in the tiny minority?” SEC: “No. Stop playing games. You have to register.”

> Maybe they’re all in the tiny minority? Coinbase lists less than 300 of the tens of thousands of cryptocurrencies out there - indeed a tiny minority of them, and they do have some kind of legal review process, so while that claim may well be untrue, it's not absurd on its face.

And you think all the SEC’s “hint hint, time to register!” for years was understood by Coinbase as “you guys are fine, we’re not talking about you”?

Re: “But the SEC let us go public” and other flawed arguments in Coinbase's defense

#85

Post by [deleted] »

boc wrote: post #35
everfree wrote: post #13

I stopped reading the article when it started comparing cryptocurrency exchanges to the business of selling heroin. No matter your opinion on the issue, that's just alarmist nonsense. I agree that it's reasonable to apply existing securities laws to cryptocurrency, and I agree that "but they let us go public" is a bad argument, but Gensler's SEC has also been intentionally obtuse about how those securities laws shoul…

Yeah agreed; at least heroin sales don’t directly fund nuclear weapons programs in North Korea, enable gigantic ransomware attacks on innocent civilians, or generate massive carbon emissions+e-waste in order to continue existing.

[deleted]

Re: “But the SEC let us go public” and other flawed arguments in Coinbase's defense

#86

Post by ceejayoz »

everfree wrote: post #82
ceejayoz wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s Coinbase’s problem. Similarly, they won’t help you figure out how to insider trade, no matter how nicely you ask. “Please make our illegal business legal, the rules don’t allow it” gets a predictable reception.

If a company can't use a piece of accounting software that's gaining worldwide relevance, that's the company's problem. If an entire country can't use a piece of accounting software that's gaining worldwide relevance, that's the country's problem.

Good luck with that “But we really wanna!” argument in court.

Re: “But the SEC let us go public” and other flawed arguments in Coinbase's defense

#87

Post by everfree »

ceejayoz wrote: post #84
everfree wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Maybe they’re all in the tiny minority? Coinbase lists less than 300 of the tens of thousands of cryptocurrencies out there - indeed a tiny minority of them, and they do have some kind of legal review process, so while that claim may well be untrue, it's not absurd on its face.

And you think all the SEC’s “hint hint, time to register!” for years was understood by Coinbase as “you guys are fine, we’re not talking about you”?

I don't agree that a regulatory agency saying "hint hint time to register" for years on end is an effective way to regulate.

The first step of effective regulation is to state exactly what is out of compliance, which they finally did only a few days ago by listing which particular coins are the ones that put Coinbase out of compliance.

The second step is to explain why those particular coins cause them to be non-compliant and why other coins (Bitcoin) are exempt, in such a way that Coinbase has rules they can apply to determine whether a particular new coin is compliant or not. That clarity is the part we're still waiting for.

Re: “But the SEC let us go public” and other flawed arguments in Coinbase's defense

#88

Post by everfree »

ceejayoz wrote: post #86
everfree wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a company can't use a piece of accounting software that's gaining worldwide relevance, that's the company's problem. If an entire country can't use a piece of accounting software that's gaining worldwide relevance, that's the country's problem.

Good luck with that “But we really wanna!” argument in court.

I don't really care. I've got a large enough international stock allocation that if the USA loses its status as the financial capital of the world over the next several decades, I'll be just fine in retirement.

Companies like Coinbase and a16z have publicly stated their intentions to establish international arms to hedge against the US regulatory environment, and there's no reason my portfolio can't follow their lead.

Re: “But the SEC let us go public” and other flawed arguments in Coinbase's defense

#89

Post by ceejayoz »

everfree wrote: post #87
ceejayoz wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And you think all the SEC’s “hint hint, time to register!” for years was understood by Coinbase as “you guys are fine, we’re not talking about you”?

I don't agree that a regulatory agency saying "hint hint time to register" for years on end is an effective way to regulate. The first step of effective regulation is to state exactly what is out of compliance, which they finally did only a few days ago by listing which particular coins are the ones that put Coinbase out of compliance. The second step is to explain why those particular coins cause them to be non-comp…

> I don't agree that a regulatory agency saying "hint hint time to register" for years on end is an effective way to regulate.

Nah, the alternative is why cops get away with everything via qualified immunity. Conmen don’t get given a pat list of what is and isn’t allowed; no one wants to play the “but you saaaaaaid!” game that results.

Re: “But the SEC let us go public” and other flawed arguments in Coinbase's defense

#90

Post by jcranmer »

everfree wrote: post #82
ceejayoz wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s Coinbase’s problem. Similarly, they won’t help you figure out how to insider trade, no matter how nicely you ask. “Please make our illegal business legal, the rules don’t allow it” gets a predictable reception.

If a company can't use a piece of accounting software that's gaining worldwide relevance, that's the company's problem. If an entire country can't use a piece of accounting software that's gaining worldwide relevance, that's the country's problem.

And the owners of that accounting software can make the case that they should be allowed to be used in the country. Lots of companies do that, and some are even successful!

So you have to ask yourself... why isn't Coinbase making that argument?

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