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A developer's view of Vision Pro

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Re: A developer's view of Vision Pro

#31

Post by pazimzadeh »

agentultra wrote: post #8

I'm curious how the economics work out. I don't think it's unrealistic to believe that the customer base that are going to be buying visionOS applications is going to be very limited compared to everything else. Very few people are going to shell out 3.4k for a niche product like this. HoloLens found it's niche in commercial sectors like manufacturing and logistics so there's a potential path to make a profitable sof…

The same way Tesla started out by selling a Roadster before working on mass market models

Re: A developer's view of Vision Pro

#32

Post by [deleted] »

agentultra wrote: post #26
bee_rider wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect the only play would be: develop developer tools for those developers who do have the budget for a long play. If Apple wants AR in their normal non-gaming, non-niche segment to work out, they are going to have to come out with a sleek $1000 device in a couple years. They’d have to be very stupid to not realize that, and it couldn’t possibly be the case that you get a trillion dollars by being stupid, right?

Right, I think they will eventually come out with a non-Pro device eventually... and price is only one factor in adoption. They could be signalling that they only want a small number of users for these things. > it couldn’t possibly be the case that you get a trillion dollars by being stupid, right? ... I mean, the fossil fuel industry likes to think it's smart but what it's doing is incredibly stupid. I'm not sure A…

[deleted]

Re: A developer's view of Vision Pro

#33

Post by henryfjordan »

ladberg wrote: post #27
Temporary_31337 wrote: post #4

I was kind of waiting for the day where a touchscreen based app would be more productive than a traditional laptop with keyboard. Yet, after many years all we got is fruit ninja and a concession from apple in the form of attachable keyboard for the iPad. So I’m equally sceptical that the investment in headset based interface is actually worth it.

I agree the keyboard will remain as the best text input device but I'm pretty confident that eye tracking will be categorically better than a mouse/trackpad. I'll expect that eye tracking solutions for normal monitors will also become more mainstream once people get used to it in the Vision Pro and want to use it elsewhere.

How do I click though? Blink? What about a right-click?

Asking me to "blink twice" or anything like that is going to make my eyes lose focus on the screen/content

Re: A developer's view of Vision Pro

#35

Post by samwillis »

ladberg wrote: post #27
Temporary_31337 wrote: post #4

I was kind of waiting for the day where a touchscreen based app would be more productive than a traditional laptop with keyboard. Yet, after many years all we got is fruit ninja and a concession from apple in the form of attachable keyboard for the iPad. So I’m equally sceptical that the investment in headset based interface is actually worth it.

I agree the keyboard will remain as the best text input device but I'm pretty confident that eye tracking will be categorically better than a mouse/trackpad. I'll expect that eye tracking solutions for normal monitors will also become more mainstream once people get used to it in the Vision Pro and want to use it elsewhere.

As we use an iPhone so close to our face, I would love to see an eye tracking system work for them. But maybe it really need that incredible close proximity, two cameras per eye, and IR illumination in the Vision Pro to work.

Re: A developer's view of Vision Pro

#36

Post by highwaylights »

ladberg wrote: post #20

> In short, my brain has crossed a Rubicon and now feels like experiences constrained to small, rectangular screens are lesser experiences. I left Apple 1.5 years ago but was working on the Vision Pro while I was there. I have spend many hours working in the headset and I know exactly the feeling he's describing! Leaving felt like going back in time to using clunky technology and I've been waiting for outside world t…

I don’t want to be nosey but given that it sounds like you feel like it’s a paradigm shifting device, and you’ve actually worked on and with the device, I’d be interested to read about your motivations for moving on from Apple/the project when you did if you ever feel like writing about it.

So many questions I’d love to ask you about this, but again, none of my business. Just wanted to let you know I’d upvote that blog post to the moon should you ever decide to write it.

Re: A developer's view of Vision Pro

#37

Post by samwillis »

henryfjordan wrote: post #33
ladberg wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree the keyboard will remain as the best text input device but I'm pretty confident that eye tracking will be categorically better than a mouse/trackpad. I'll expect that eye tracking solutions for normal monitors will also become more mainstream once people get used to it in the Vision Pro and want to use it elsewhere.

How do I click though? Blink? What about a right-click? Asking me to "blink twice" or anything like that is going to make my eyes lose focus on the screen/content

On the Vision Pro, tap your index finger and thumb together.

Maybe they could add other features from just your face though for other platforms, wiggling nose, raise eyebrows, stick out tong, blow a raspberry?

That or they add voice commands, "open", "select" and such.

I suppose ultimately in spatial computing with voice interface and eye tracking the concept of a "click" may die.

Re: A developer's view of Vision Pro

#38

Post by BulgarianIdiot »

> In short, my brain has crossed a Rubicon and now feels like experiences constrained to small, rectangular screens are lesser experiences.

The funny thing about this statement is that Vision Pro is in fact the smallest rectangular screen of any device he's written code for.

He's hyped up. That's normal. In time he'll understand Vision Pro doesn't provide any better UX for common activities. In fact it's worse in many ways.

Where Vision Pro may shine is tasks where you need to perceive and manipulate complex three-dimensional objects, as they would be in physical space. I see great uses in engineering, design, art. It'd be great to preview interior design, design cars, architecture, create machinery and so on.

It'll also be great for previewing products, so online stores become a lot more viable than they are now, as you get a sense of size and style for an item in Vision Pro.

It may also be great for education, training, simulations.

It has many great uses. But basic apps isn't it. And most people won't care. This thing sucks to wear for more than 20 minutes. It's heavy and uncomfortable. You can't share your experience with others, either. It costs a lot. And you can't multitask with it. I can walk to a place and do something on my phone.

The input model also sucks. To code, for example, you need to hook a bluetooth keyboard and mouse. Looking at symbols one by one to fingertap would be comically slow. At which point, you may as well just get 2-3 screens and work on a normal workstation. For less money.

Re: A developer's view of Vision Pro

#39

Post by jondwillis »

macintux wrote: post #25
ladberg wrote: post #20

> In short, my brain has crossed a Rubicon and now feels like experiences constrained to small, rectangular screens are lesser experiences. I left Apple 1.5 years ago but was working on the Vision Pro while I was there. I have spend many hours working in the headset and I know exactly the feeling he's describing! Leaving felt like going back in time to using clunky technology and I've been waiting for outside world t…

From your experience with it, what do you think about the fatigue factor, either visually or just neck strain? From all accounts it’s quite heavy.

Unironically it might be smart to start 3d printing and testing some iNeckBrace designs.

Re: A developer's view of Vision Pro

#40

Post by chrisrogers »

ladberg wrote: post #27
Temporary_31337 wrote: post #4

I was kind of waiting for the day where a touchscreen based app would be more productive than a traditional laptop with keyboard. Yet, after many years all we got is fruit ninja and a concession from apple in the form of attachable keyboard for the iPad. So I’m equally sceptical that the investment in headset based interface is actually worth it.

I agree the keyboard will remain as the best text input device but I'm pretty confident that eye tracking will be categorically better than a mouse/trackpad. I'll expect that eye tracking solutions for normal monitors will also become more mainstream once people get used to it in the Vision Pro and want to use it elsewhere.

Eye tracking will probably lose the productivity metric, though. When you remove the ability to look at one thing and interact with another, you get farther from the way that humans tend to interact with their immediate physical environment.

I can cut vegetables without looking at them. I can use that dynamic to offset the planning and acting phases of my thought process. Falling short of that efficiency will feel limiting.

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