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The Tyranny of Structurelessness (1970)

jofreeman.com

61–70 of 75 posts

Re: The Tyranny of Structurelessness (1970)

#61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> - "The Inner Ring" by CS Lewis ( https://www.lewissociety.org/innerring/ ) CS Lewis predicted the impact of social media 50 years prior to its existence: > And if in your spare time you consort simply with the people you like, you will again find that you have come unawares to a real inside: that you are indeed snug and safe at the centre of something which, seen from without, would look exactly like an Inner Ring.…

If anyone likes to check the clarity of his view, I suggest "The abolition of man" -- chapter 3 in particular. I find it so prescient of modern times in so many ways. Astonishing.

As a child, there seemed to be some "excitement"[1] around The lion, the witch, the wardrobe. I really didn't get the allure and ultimately the whole cs lewisian fiction arena was something I stayed away from. I figured that lewis was just not for me.

Then as a young adult, I happened across abolition of man by accident (honestly, it might even have been HN where I first came across the link). This is one of the most fantastic things that I've read. And this was the start of my discovery of cs lewis' serious writings.

It's been a while since I read them, but I would put forward: the abolition of man, screwtape letters, the great divorce, and the problem of pain.

As a christian, I don't really buy all of lewis' arguments. And he even goes on record in one of his essays about how you shouldn't read too deeply into what his actual beliefs are based off his essays (which feels kind of like a cop out, but whatever). However, he was able to take a line of reasoning and then build a compelling body of text around it. The experience is impressive.

Even if you have very little sympathy towards christianity, I would suggest at least giving abolition of man and screwtape letters a shot. Abolition is all about the possibility of society becoming a machine to destroy humanity, and screwtape letters spends a lot of time trying to convince you that a non-human intelligence is going to be non-human.

[1] - I think the idea was that this was christian fiction that children should be happy to read. No necessarily that anyone was excited per se. But more like, youngish christian families wanted to build up a wholesome peer environment for their children and this was a christiany media that they didn't have to worry about.

Re: The Tyranny of Structurelessness (1970)

#62
What a thinly-veiled piece of authoritarian propaganda, lots of bad arguments in there.

I did enjoy this [1] refutation of the article though.

I agree with the article I linked in that people who think The Tyranny of Structurelessness is insightful are mostly bookish socially-incompetent people who want to force the rest of us to live sterile rule-bound "lives" (if you can even call that life).

- [1] https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/jason-mcquinn-a-revi...

Re: The Tyranny of Structurelessness (1970)

#63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The one that really changed how I think about the world was "A Muscular Empathy" by Ta-Nehisi Coates https://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2011/12/a-muscu...

I appreciate the thought experiment of considering whether we would truly act differently in difficult circumstances, as most never engage in that level of self-reflection. However, this article seems to beg the question. Specifically, it starts by assuming that in the face of challenges like being born in poverty, the average person would not overcome them through will or effort alone. As a result, it cultivates emp…

> Specifically, it starts by assuming that in the face of challenges like being born in poverty, the average person would not overcome them through will or effort alone.

I would concur. Three ways out of poverty would be sports, art/music and crime (bad idea). Knowledge, luck and the right mindset and are important too. There is the book Rich Dad Poor Dad about the mindset part.

Re: The Tyranny of Structurelessness (1970)

#64

What a thinly-veiled piece of authoritarian propaganda, lots of bad arguments in there. I did enjoy this [1] refutation of the article though. I agree with the article I linked in that people who think The Tyranny of Structurelessness is insightful are mostly bookish socially-incompetent people who want to force the rest of us to live sterile rule-bound "lives" (if you can even call that life ). - [1] https://theanar…

I'm impressed at McQuinn's capacity to say so little with so many words. This barely addresses the main points of the article, instead repeatedly throwing insults and labels without warrant, hoping something will stick. Nothing's been refuted.

Re: The Tyranny of Structurelessness (1970)

#65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This kind of thing is exactly my jam. I read Becker about a year ago and it set off a landslide that has still not settled. Much appreciate the others, I have made note of them.

Great to hear!! I'm also always on the hunt for books similar to this - a weird mix of psychoanalysis, sociology, deep thought - so happy to hear your recommendations as well!!

Well my friend:

Everything (really) by Erving Goffman. A beautiful synthesis is [1] which I might recommend over the original material (sacrilege!) if you were only going to read one thing.

We (as Western Civilization, maybe) have still (imo) not come to terms with the bounty that is William James. I had negligible interest in religion, but if you're into the weird mix of psychoanalysis, sociology, and deep thought, I cannot recommend [2] enough. I read it over the course of a year, annotated the margins like the faithful annotate their holy texts (do they do that?) and many evenings still open a page, read randomly, and ponder.

I had never really considered what an institution really was, or how it came to be, or what was implicit / assumed in interacting with it. This classic prompted much fruitful imagining [3] although it's the most difficult reading of them all.

Given your tastes, you may have slogged through a bunch of philosophy and hated it. The good news (or maybe the bad news) is that this is super fun and easy to read and gives you most of the same nutrients [4] as certain schools, and has obvious contemporary relevance besides.

This scratches a proximate itch [5].

I'm a little sheepish bc all of these (except for maybe [5]) are deep classics and are, in a sense, obvious for that reason. And yet I have a PhD in a related field and never actually _read_ any of them, so maybe they won't be obvious to you either :)

[1] https://www.amazon.com/Goffman-Reader-Charles-Lemert/dp/1557...

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Varieties_of_Religious_Exp...

[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Social_Construction_of_Rea...

[4] https://www.amazon.com/Supersizing-Mind-Embodiment-Cognitive...

[5] https://www.upress.umn.edu/book-division/books/alien-phenome...

Re: The Tyranny of Structurelessness (1970)

#66

> Forbidden > You don't have permission to access this resource.

Probably the HN hug of death. I was able to read it by following the link at one of the other locations it had been posted on HN previously, eg: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7409611

Thanks. Its a really good article so far, I got halfway through before I had to leave for work

Re: The Tyranny of Structurelessness (1970)

#67

What a thinly-veiled piece of authoritarian propaganda, lots of bad arguments in there. I did enjoy this [1] refutation of the article though. I agree with the article I linked in that people who think The Tyranny of Structurelessness is insightful are mostly bookish socially-incompetent people who want to force the rest of us to live sterile rule-bound "lives" (if you can even call that life ). - [1] https://theanar…

I don’t think it’s a very persuasive rebuttal. I infer that McQuinn is a libertarian, which explains the issue: it amounts to ‘well [as a white man who automatically has power in every social situation I encounter] I haven’t had any problems, unlike those weak-willed dorks’ and bad-faith implications that Freeman supports capitalist structure.

Re: The Tyranny of Structurelessness (1970)

#68
post #4

There are relatively few things I've read that I can definitively point to as having almost instantly changed my mind on something. This is one of them. Reading often offers a broader understanding or different perspective, but seldom a sudden flash on insight. Others short reads that have changed my mind in that way include: - "The Inner Ring" by CS Lewis ( https://www.lewissociety.org/innerring/ ) - "On Photography…

I would add “Meditations on Moloch” from Slate Star Codex.

The further back into his catalog you go, the more profound it gets - unfortunately, as he's lost more and more anonymity, he's made his earlier (and more controversial) stuff less accessible.

Re: The Tyranny of Structurelessness (1970)

#70
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Flat" != "no authority". Flat structures may, or may not, have a head. What they don't have is deep hierarchy. Mind that this has its own set of benefits and disadvantages. Fewer deparmental turf battles, but very broad spans of control and/or highly autonomous roles. An ant or bee colony is a flat structure with a strong central control, at least reproductively: the queen. This isn't an ideal comparison, of course,…

Moreover it is arguably the converse - organisations with a deep heirarchy and a lack of operational structure - that are most prone to predators. Individuals with narcissistic or sociopathic tendencies are attracted to positions where they wield power over others but have little to no accountability. This is why it's so important for misdeeds to be brought to light and justice. An example is the UK political system,…

Could you give examples beyond UK politics?
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