Silvio Berlusconi, a Showman Who Upended Italian Politics and Culture Dies at 86

> You are equating somebody who actually abused power and brought the world closer to an authoritarian strongman dystopia to people who, by your own description, are mostly ineffective and don't actually do anything.

I didn't say that they were ineffective: they were actually eroding the trust on their side by exaggerating and misinterpreting as much as they could, mixing up good and bad reasons; also, I feel that there is a germ of authoritarianism in people who are constantly complaining of others violating rules, including the unwritten ones and the plainly made up ones.

As for the other side, from one hand I think that Berlusconi was not as bad or dangerous as Trump (aside from completely different relevance for the world); otoh, I have seen enough demonization in Italy during the Berlusconi years to understand that at least some of what Trump was accused of had to be an exaggeration.

We foreigners judge Berlusconi on our own moral framework. But Italy is not like most other countries:

  "Italy breathed a sigh of relief today upon learning that the country's highest court of appeal had ruled that influence-peddling is not a crime. The only punishable offense, the judges decided, is overstating one's power to exert influence.

  ''Essentially, the judges are saying what everybody in Italy believes: It is not a crime, as long as you do it well,'' Franco Ferrarotti, an Italian sociologist said of the Wednesday ruling on ''raccomandazione,'' the Italian custom of seeking and receiving special treatment from people in power, or close to it.

  ''This is our version of the Protestant ethic,'' Mr. Ferrarotti said. ''When a favor works successfully, it ceases to be a crime and becomes a work of art.''

https://web.archive.org/web/20201112040914/http://www.nytime...

  In 2001, British author and physician Theodore Dalrymple argued that corruption is actually the "one saving grace" of Italian public administration. Dalrymple explained his view that Italy's government was overburdened with an inefficient bureaucracy that slows down any progress but that corruption and bribery to bypass roadblocks allows for some progress to be made.[31]

  Dalrymple further maintained that the open display of corruption on the part of government officials causes Italian citizens to view the government as the 'enemy', an attitude that Dalrymple considered sensible and healthy, as compared with the misguided British belief that the state is purely good. This belief, Dalrymple charged, "has completely eroded the proud and sturdy independence of the British population." 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_in_Italy#

>In 2001, British author and physician Theodore Dalrymple argued that corruption is actually the "one saving grace" of Italian public administration. Dalrymple explained his view that Italy's government was overburdened with an inefficient bureaucracy that slows down any progress but that corruption and bribery to bypass roadblocks allows for some progress to be made.[31]

I have a friend who grew up in Italy, he emigrated for university and worked abroad. He came back in his late 30s, bought house. The usual deal when 'coming back'.

He hates the corruption. Its happening at every level of public interaction, starting from local communities, all the way up. He made a decision that after 3 years he is sick and tiered of it and will be moving out of Italy for good.

Corruption is always bad as it propagates and rewards the people who are most of the time most ill-suited for the position of trust they are holding.

Saying corruption is a blessing for over-bureaucratic and inefficient systems is like saying that cutting of a hand that is broken is a good solutions because hospitals overcrowded and underfunded.

As an Italian-American I find comments in this thread very very distasteful.

I am not a Berlusconi fan, and am disgusted by politics in general, but this guy was basically a JFK who got to live till 86 years old.

Corruption and ties with the organized crime? Those were the bread and butter for the Kennedy family, that's how he stole Illinois , how his dad made money with the contraband etc. and yet given that he took the bullet in Dallas and signed off the Apollo program everybody should get on their knees and genuflect and pay respects to the big man.

Airports and roads and everything entitled to the memory of the dude, but hey Berlusconi is an olive oil drinking devil and so we ought to celebrate his death, right?

The American melting-pot is an extraordinary feat but as long as Americans will keep treating other countries who made up the same melting pot with a different set of standards there will always be tensions. It is a melting pot but most people don't like insults to their country of origin and double standards for 2 identical political leaders just because one was born within the limits of the invisible border and has the Bald Eagle on the Passport.