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Silvio Berlusconi, a Showman Who Upended Italian Politics and Culture Dies at 86

nytimes.com

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Re: Silvio Berlusconi, a Showman Who Upended Italian Politics and Culture Dies at 86

#21

Post by lultimouomo »

peterfirefly wrote: post #16
martopix wrote: post #5

For those who did not grow up like me in Berlusconi's Italy, he was an interesting character and in many ways a precursor of today's politics. When Trump came to rise, I felt many aspects were similar: both very rich entrepreneurs, arrogant personalities, a tendency to go against well established rules, personal attacks on opponents, an admiration for strongmen (Berlusconi had a clear crush on Putin), tax creativity,…

What many people outside of Italy don't understand is how crazy the left side of politics in Italy was (and still is). Italy had a looong period (that arguably hasn't ended yet) in which there were no good choices to vote for: either corrupt Berlusconi or Communists (who were also corrupt). Meloni has so far been a pleasant surprise. I didn't have any positive expectations when she became PM but she seems to be doing…

You can easily dislike the Italian left for a number of reasons, but being commies is definitely not one of them.

Re: Silvio Berlusconi, a Showman Who Upended Italian Politics and Culture Dies at 86

#22

Post by braymundo »

casenmgreen wrote: post #19

It's a terrible thing to say this of a man, or someone who has died, but thank God. I mean, it might well by the end he was been pretty aged in his mind and was being used or fooled or had lost the plot : his comments about Ukraine were staggering, appalling aberrations you never want to hear from someone with considerable public stature in any country.

I don’t feel bad at all. He should be judged by his words and actions. I’ll celebrate shamelessly when putin dies.

Re: Silvio Berlusconi, a Showman Who Upended Italian Politics and Culture Dies at 86

#23

Post by thepangolino »

One of the last giants, signing the end of an era. While not perfect, like anyone, he marked both Italian and European politics of his singular approach and proverbial ball. Politics now are becoming much more dull and suffering of a lack of vision.

Re: Silvio Berlusconi, a Showman Who Upended Italian Politics and Culture Dies at 86

#25

Post by paganel »

datadeft wrote: post #20
cinntaile wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aren't politicians with ties to the mafia quite common in Italy?

Aren't politicians with ties to the mafia quite common?

Like the recent Scottish First Minister Nicola Sturgeon getting arrested a couple of days ago (and released, for the time being).

Re: Silvio Berlusconi, a Showman Who Upended Italian Politics and Culture Dies at 86

#26

Post by ttyprintk »

casenmgreen wrote: post #19

It's a terrible thing to say this of a man, or someone who has died, but thank God. I mean, it might well by the end he was been pretty aged in his mind and was being used or fooled or had lost the plot : his comments about Ukraine were staggering, appalling aberrations you never want to hear from someone with considerable public stature in any country.

His catchphrase, “sono stato frainteso,” gets to live on as an excuse for inaction and deceit.

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2017/04/the-similarities...

Re: Silvio Berlusconi, a Showman Who Upended Italian Politics and Culture Dies at 86

#27

Post by camillomiller »

jll29 wrote: post #8

Berlusconi was said to have had ties to organized crime, going back to his time as a real estate lawyer. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2009/dec/04/silvio-berlusc...

As a staunch Italian hater of anything Berlusconi, we still have to agree that he was never found guilty of those charges, though--it doesn't mean he was involved, but the judiciary system in Italy had also its own agenda and an obsession with indicting Berlusconi that, tbh, backfired against the court system in a big way.

Re: Silvio Berlusconi, a Showman Who Upended Italian Politics and Culture Dies at 86

#28

Post by camillomiller »

datadeft wrote: post #20
cinntaile wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aren't politicians with ties to the mafia quite common in Italy?

Aren't politicians with ties to the mafia quite common?

Aren't politician with ties quite common?

Re: Silvio Berlusconi, a Showman Who Upended Italian Politics and Culture Dies at 86

#29

Post by flir »

paganel wrote: post #25
datadeft wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aren't politicians with ties to the mafia quite common?

Like the recent Scottish First Minister Nicola Sturgeon getting arrested a couple of days ago (and released, for the time being).

Mafia? Sturgeon? Are you serious?

Re: Silvio Berlusconi, a Showman Who Upended Italian Politics and Culture Dies at 86

#30

Post by mathieuh »

paganel wrote: post #25
datadeft wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aren't politicians with ties to the mafia quite common?

Like the recent Scottish First Minister Nicola Sturgeon getting arrested a couple of days ago (and released, for the time being).

Seems like a fairly straightforward misappropriation of party funds at this point, I don't think there's any suggestion she was playing around with taxpayer money
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