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Inside the Wuhan lab weeks before Covid

thetimes.co.uk

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Re: Inside the Wuhan lab weeks before Covid

#431

Post by jeswin »

I'd like for someone to throughly research and write about how it became taboo to discuss the virus leak theory. How researchers who discussed it were shunned, tagged as racists, and in some cases had their posts banned from Social Media. About how almost the entire scientific community discarded the idea as impossible. How during the early pandemic years, no mainstream news media dared talk about the possibility.

Tech companies too had a role to play here. For the sake of free speech, what happened here is worth discussing.

Re: Inside the Wuhan lab weeks before Covid

#432

Post by liberty-DNBWM »

I just don't understand this at all. Is it not obivous that US government discovered this virus a long time ago and started researching? There are too many proofs on this. How the fuck is this related to Wuhan? Are these publishers not thinking normal people too stupid and easy to be manipulated?

Re: Inside the Wuhan lab weeks before Covid

#433

Post by ergodic1 »

ajross wrote: post #367
ergodic1 wrote: post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Making the claim that you know the proportion of conspiracies that get reported implies you know the number of conspiracies not reported. Im not aware of any way you could know that or the relative proportion of each. Where do you get your certainty here?

I have no certainty, that's the point! The evidence for natural evolution is pretty reasonable (it matches every other pandemic ever -- these are hardly unknown!), the evidence for lab genesis is at best circumstantial and frankly pretty heavily spun by everyone dealing in it. You want the fact that I can't prove you wrong to be evidence that you're right, and that's not how logic works.

I think you misunderstood. Your claim is:

"The overwhelming majority of conspiracies likes this, especially ones in fundamentally civilian organizations like science labs, don't survive a year if that."

How do you know that the overwhelming majority of conspiracies don't survive a year if that? It's like sampling sick people and concluding that all people are sick. Without an estimate of the number of conspiracies that actually are kept hidden (which to me seems nearly impossible), how could you possibly know the proportion as you claimed?

This seems like a base rate fallacy to me. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Base_rate_fallacy

Re: Inside the Wuhan lab weeks before Covid

#434

Post by WastingMyTime89 »

jeswin wrote: post #431

I'd like for someone to throughly research and write about how it became taboo to discuss the virus leak theory. How researchers who discussed it were shunned, tagged as racists, and in some cases had their posts banned from Social Media. About how almost the entire scientific community discarded the idea as impossible. How during the early pandemic years, no mainstream news media dared talk about the possibility. Te…

Was it really taboo? I didn’t get this feeling where I live (admittedly not the USA). It’s just that it became clear pretty quickly that the investigation was going nowhere as China wasn’t going to honestly cooperate. That didn’t leave much to discuss.

For the official response, it was to be expected. The UN does plenty of compromises with authoritarian countries for the sake of being able to operate. It would have been surprising to see the WHO press China.

Re: Inside the Wuhan lab weeks before Covid

#435

Post by whimsicalism »

MagicMoonlight wrote: post #430

The response to Covid tells you that it came from their bioweapons lab. Their first response was to start burning people with flamethrowers and sealing in entire cities. You don’t do that if it’s a random virus you’ve never seen before.

Their first response was to try to suppress it.

Burning people with flamethrowers is propaganda, plain and simple. I challenge you to source that.

Re: Inside the Wuhan lab weeks before Covid

#436

Post by whimsicalism »

Xen9 wrote: post #116

I personally believe in Rootlclaim's Bayesian analysis ( https://www.rootclaim.com/analysis/What-is-the-source-of-COV... ) which states that "the virus was developed during gain-of-function research and was released by accident (89% probability)" This is consistent with David Martin's speech in Europe: https://twitter.com/KimDotcom/status/1661698114917646336 I haven't checked the "publicly available references" but m…

This sort of thing is only going to give more ammunition to people saying STEM students must take ethics/reasoning/philosophy courses :)

Re: Inside the Wuhan lab weeks before Covid

#437

Post by bomewish »

pcrh wrote: post #55

After a quick read of the article, it presents no new data, and is replete with innuendo pointing at the Wuhan lab, rather than any direct evidence. Most importantly, the general reader should know that all labs researching viruses do research on dangerous viruses. After all there is no incentive to research benign viruses. So the fact that the Wuhan lab worked on coronaviruses is not in itself an indication of any i…

> innuendo... rather than any direct evidence.

May be a good idea to get acquainted with inference to best explanation, and to understand that 'direct evidence' should not automatically be awarded epistemological primacy over 'circumstantial evidence' (or what you're calling 'innuendo').

Re: Inside the Wuhan lab weeks before Covid

#438

Post by throwaway485 »

jeswin wrote: post #431

I'd like for someone to throughly research and write about how it became taboo to discuss the virus leak theory. How researchers who discussed it were shunned, tagged as racists, and in some cases had their posts banned from Social Media. About how almost the entire scientific community discarded the idea as impossible. How during the early pandemic years, no mainstream news media dared talk about the possibility. Te…

There was a brief window at the beginning where it would have mattered to know the origin of the virus. Intervention at a wet market or in a wuhan lab could have happened. However, this theory was circulated and promoted to inspire hatred and distrust of many authority figures. Authorities who put significant resources forward to save lives. Even today we're still seeing thousands die from what may very well be a conspiracy theory.

Both can be true: It originated in a lab, and the distrust that inspired is still killing many. It's dangerous to talk about it because it's still killing people.

If we found out 100% the lab theory is false, you'd still have millions who want it to be true and who want to be enraged. You have millions who want to put themselves at risk. There are larger problems with society than this virus. That's what this conspiracy uncovered.

Re: Inside the Wuhan lab weeks before Covid

#439

Post by harryf »

jeswin wrote: post #431

I'd like for someone to throughly research and write about how it became taboo to discuss the virus leak theory. How researchers who discussed it were shunned, tagged as racists, and in some cases had their posts banned from Social Media. About how almost the entire scientific community discarded the idea as impossible. How during the early pandemic years, no mainstream news media dared talk about the possibility. Te…

You might find https://globalhealthproject.org is going some of this direction.

> We’re building a community of doctors and patients affected by medical tyranny. Our goal is to rebuild the sacred trust between the medical community and those they serve.

Re: Inside the Wuhan lab weeks before Covid

#440

Post by whimsicalism »

From the start, the claims about the Mojiang are unproven and they don't have a shred of evidence to back it up [0]. I don't think you can divorce the newfound popularity of the lab leak from the new cold war we're entering.

[0]: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8490156/

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