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Intel is all-in on backside power delivery

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Re: Intel is all-in on backside power delivery

#81

Post by evilduck »

SuperShibe wrote: post #38
TheRealPomax wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does "start leading" even mean? Every CPU launch, AMD is ahead and the Intel beats them or Intel is ahead and then AMD beats them. There is no leading here. There are only wins for people who want CPUs that keep getting faster, cooler, require fewer watts to run, and overall improve generation upon generation.

And meanwhile they're both getting cucked by Apple because the Intel/AMD brand monoliths are too heavy to make any groundbreaking/architectural changes now.

AMD's Zen 4 chips are competing with Apple's M2 on performance and at least closing the gap on efficiency. Intel's Alder Lake is losing on efficiency but is still trading blows for performance. I am generally a fan of Apple but the M2 was just a modest iteration of the M1, it's not a groundbreaking architectural change either. Even the Pro/Max/Ultra die multiplication strategy is unlikely to continue competing much longer, the latest M2 Ultra is losing to AMD and Intel in some aspects right out of the gate.

Re: Intel is all-in on backside power delivery

#82

Post by genmud »

jmisavage wrote: post #7

Backside power delivery should help portables and maybe get some of these crazy desktop numbers down. If all goes as planned Intel looks to have a 2 year jump on TSMC based on current timetables. But I'm worried about them adding nanosheet transistors around the same time. They got into problems before being too ambitious and having a stalled roadmap for a very long time.

Assuming they deliver on a timetable they say they will, which intel has had a well established track record of not doing. With intel, over the last 5-10 years I don't believe anything they say until there are chips in peoples hands at a volume that is meaningful.

Re: Intel is all-in on backside power delivery

#83

Post by pyrolistical »

lstamour wrote: post #59
pyrolistical wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

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Thanks. Adguard worked

Re: Intel is all-in on backside power delivery

#84

Post by nightowl_games »

hn_thrwn wrote: post #77
wpietri wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks. Very helpful. One of the wild things to me is how incredibly elaborate chipmaking as become over the years. Per Wikipedia, the 6502's layout was made with "a very manual process done with color pencils and vellum paper". That's the processor that launched the personal computing revolution, powering the Apple II, Commodore PET and VIC-20, the Acorn, and the BBC Micro. Nearly 50 years later, things have gotten…

Chip making is the first industry that was automates by computers. Much like how steam engines were first used in coal mines.

"Chip making is automated."

Is not a true statement.

Re: Intel is all-in on backside power delivery

#85

Post by userbinator »

wincy wrote: post #31
dboreham wrote: post #16

Unfortunate name.

Reminds me of a few months ago when Nvidia announced their new CuLitho fabrication process, which is Spanish means “cute little ass”. I hope Nvidia adds backside power delivery to their new CuLitho chips, just so we can get as many jokes as possible out of this fab cycle.

CuLitho de Nvidia.

Re: Intel is all-in on backside power delivery

#86

Post by wpietri »

nightowl_games wrote: post #84
hn_thrwn wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chip making is the first industry that was automates by computers. Much like how steam engines were first used in coal mines.

"Chip making is automated." Is not a true statement.

I mean, steam engines didn't fully automate mining either, but I still get his point.

Re: Intel is all-in on backside power delivery

#87

Post by raziel2701 »

pbj1968 wrote: post #51
wincy wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reminds me of a few months ago when Nvidia announced their new CuLitho fabrication process, which is Spanish means “cute little ass”. I hope Nvidia adds backside power delivery to their new CuLitho chips, just so we can get as many jokes as possible out of this fab cycle.

Culitho != Culito

H is silent in spanish, so when spoken culitho = culito

Re: Intel is all-in on backside power delivery

#88

Post by bbor »

nightowl_games wrote: post #84
hn_thrwn wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chip making is the first industry that was automates by computers. Much like how steam engines were first used in coal mines.

"Chip making is automated." Is not a true statement.

“Automated” != “Fully Automated”/“Autonomous” IMO. I took one class on this years ago and didn’t pay a lot of attention so disregard me if I’m super off base, but Silicon does rely heavily on computer aided design, no? I think a more charitable reading of the parent in that light makes it an actually quite insightful comment

Re: Intel is all-in on backside power delivery

#89

Post by foobarbecue »

pyrolistical wrote: post #32
rektide wrote: post #13

I thought the Anandtech coverage did a bit better job filling in both background & details. https://www.anandtech.com/show/18894/intel-details-powervia-...

Ads are getting in the way on mobile. Don’t know how sites like this are going to exist. For me personally the content does not out weigh the ads

Same here, chrome on Android. Luckily the diagrams were still visible and that's all I really needed.

Re: Intel is all-in on backside power delivery

#90

Post by icelancer »

genmud wrote: post #82
jmisavage wrote: post #7

Backside power delivery should help portables and maybe get some of these crazy desktop numbers down. If all goes as planned Intel looks to have a 2 year jump on TSMC based on current timetables. But I'm worried about them adding nanosheet transistors around the same time. They got into problems before being too ambitious and having a stalled roadmap for a very long time.

Assuming they deliver on a timetable they say they will, which intel has had a well established track record of not doing. With intel, over the last 5-10 years I don't believe anything they say until there are chips in peoples hands at a volume that is meaningful.

Here's to hoping a real engineer (Gelsinger) at the helm will make the difference.
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