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Went Off The Rails: Why I'm Rebuilding Archaeopteryx In CoffeeScript

gilesbowkett.blogspot.in

11–20 of 143 posts

Re: Went Off The Rails: Why I'm Rebuilding Archaeopteryx In CoffeeScript

#11
This came across to me as a long rambling rant which amongst other things interchangeably referred to ruby as both "ruby" and "rails", but i got the feeling it was more about bashing rails.

Rebuilding something because the older stuff is is "bloated" and the new stuff is somehow superior always seems like a weak excuse to me. The new stuff quickly becomes the old "bloated" stuff and you're back to square 1. In fact I have no doubt that within 5 years something else new will come along and perhaps Giles will be writing another article about "Node Went Off The Script: Why I'm Rebuilding Clyde In TheNextBestThing".

Personally I would rather concentrate on making something which is actually good in its own right.

Re: Went Off The Rails: Why I'm Rebuilding Archaeopteryx In CoffeeScript

#14
I love Giles. His first Archaeopteryx talk was one of the best Ruby-related talks of all time. He's way too harsh on Rails though. The original "blog in 15 minutes" demos that catapulted Rails into the limelight are still possible with Rails 3. Things like 'gem install rails' still work. If you are determined to skip bundler, you can do that too. What's more, unlike 2005, in the 15 minutes it takes to build a Rails blog, you can deploy to Heroku and have a live site running.

Node is fun. V8 smokes MRI. But Node's web framework ecosystem has a long, long, long way to go before one can reasonably say that Rails is a bad investment. If anything, we should be celebrating the number of options that are open to us. It's a great time to be developing for the web. Good things will come from Node's ascendancy, whether its frameworks dethrone Rails or not. The negativity is unnecessary.

Re: Went Off The Rails: Why I'm Rebuilding Archaeopteryx In CoffeeScript

#15
Rails has always been bloated. That's what you get from frameworks that come with automation for common tasks.

However, let me provide a counter-point ... I think that Rails 3 is finally a good framework that I want to use. Blogs written in 5 minutes (which you can still do in Rails 3) have never impressed me.

What impresses me is code-reuse, modularity and readability. Which is why I preferred Django instead of Rails 2. The biggest reason was that I can read Django's source-code, but Rails (prior to 3) was really awful in that regard and cargo-culting is OK, but only when you're starting out.

Node & Coffeescript are indeed cool and have their place. However I prefer mature frameworks that save me effort when building yet-another-admin or yet-another-facebook-login.

Not pursuing hotness is the new hotness IMHO.

Re: Went Off The Rails: Why I'm Rebuilding Archaeopteryx In CoffeeScript

#16
post #9
post #6

You can't compare a web framework with an event reactor.

Actually, node is also a web framework. It's just not a web framework to build CRUD apps like Rails is tailored for. So, it all depends on how you define what web is.

Node is a web framework because it has a HTTP server built in? By this logic, EventMachine is also a web framework

Re: Went Off The Rails: Why I'm Rebuilding Archaeopteryx In CoffeeScript

#18
Glad you published this Giles. I really think you hit the nail on the head in your criticism of rails, and not necessarily ruby. I think some of the framework decisions in the 3.0 release were kind "abstraction for abstraction's sake" moves. In other areas, I think the framework has pushed beyond what the language is capable of handling in a reasonable manner, from a performance perspective (I'm talking about development efficiency performance, not production performance).

No doubt, these features were implemented with good solid principles in mind. But, imo, at this point in Rails' lifecycle as a framework (something that has been in public release for 5+ years) performance (both production and in development) should have held more weight in the decision-making process than doing things for what appeared to be because they were the "right" things to do.

For one, the startup time of the framework is just, atrocious. If it takes me 15-30 seconds to boot up the framework (and on my quad core dual processor 8gb ram MBP running a small-to-medium-sized project, it does) just to run one test, that is just plain ridiculous. A lot of that time is spent loading the large dependency graph of gems with which most new rails apps these days are packaged. I think this trend -- rigorous packaging open source library code as a first-class dependency, instead of writing it yourself, or snapshotting that actual code in your SCM -- is a good thing. But I think the performance characteristics of the ruby language, and of the ruby community, make trying to cram 150+ gems into the load path and then require all of them, serially, in a single thread, unacceptably slow for modern web development.

I will say that I think the situation has improved quite a bit more recently, and the focus seems to be honing in more on development performance, but it might be a tad too late for me. I'm focused more on building api's than I am building "web apps". For that, sinatra is just a much simpler, faster and elegant stack IMHO.

Re: Went Off The Rails: Why I'm Rebuilding Archaeopteryx In CoffeeScript

#19
post #14

I love Giles. His first Archaeopteryx talk was one of the best Ruby-related talks of all time. He's way too harsh on Rails though. The original "blog in 15 minutes" demos that catapulted Rails into the limelight are still possible with Rails 3. Things like 'gem install rails' still work. If you are determined to skip bundler, you can do that too. What's more, unlike 2005, in the 15 minutes it takes to build a Rails b…

I'd go further and say, that it will be very hard to have a good MVC framework with Node before the async callback mess is brought under control. Maybe we'll even need something like Iced CoffeeScript for this.
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