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It’s not the chemicals that cause addiction (2017)

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Re: It’s not the chemicals that cause addiction (2017)

#11

Post by niemandhier »

denimnerd42 wrote: post #3
cyberax wrote: post #2

2017. That was before fentanyl and meth onslaught.

don't think meth or fentanyl changes his hypothesis. if you see the interviews of those in bandos in Baltimore or on the street in Kensington, they have endured trauma their entire lives. Whether it's societal induced trauma like racism, poverty, family trauma, violence, or whatever else. These people are choosing to escape their "cages" with these drugs.

There are drugs that cause neural rewireing in animals after a single use e.g. cocaine. If you have a stable social group and a fulfilled life you will probably not become dependant on thc, you should still avoid crack.

Re: It’s not the chemicals that cause addiction (2017)

#13

Post by xrd »

I've got a friend who recently was hospitalized for fentanyl addiction.

Twenty years ago he was my first investor in my first startup. He was the guy that taught me about mediation. He was the first vegetarian I knew.

He owned four cab licenses in Portland. Then Uber came in and shredded his retirement plan. The cab company forced him out so he wouldn't even capitalize on the partial ownership of the land they owned. He lost everything. He has nothing left.

He discovered some awful things about his father. His brother died in a gruesome car crash at 25.

I remember him telling me about oxycotin (edited: I misremembered it as oxycodone), this "miracle drug" without the addiction of morphine. He got on that.

Ten years later he was using heroin. Then fentanyl more recently.

I'm pretty angry at the Sakler family. I'm mad at the drug cartels. I'm not mad at my friend. He's a generous and loving person.

Everyone has a story. I'm sure some are full of awful actions that led them to where they are, but I don't see my friend in that way.

Re: It’s not the chemicals that cause addiction (2017)

#14

Post by Nowado »

niemandhier wrote: post #11
denimnerd42 wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

don't think meth or fentanyl changes his hypothesis. if you see the interviews of those in bandos in Baltimore or on the street in Kensington, they have endured trauma their entire lives. Whether it's societal induced trauma like racism, poverty, family trauma, violence, or whatever else. These people are choosing to escape their "cages" with these drugs.

There are drugs that cause neural rewireing in animals after a single use e.g. cocaine. If you have a stable social group and a fulfilled life you will probably not become dependant on thc, you should still avoid crack.

Everything causes neural rewiring in animals after a single use. That's what experience is. This sentence says nothing.

Re: It’s not the chemicals that cause addiction (2017)

#15

Post by [deleted] »

xrd wrote: post #13

I've got a friend who recently was hospitalized for fentanyl addiction. Twenty years ago he was my first investor in my first startup. He was the guy that taught me about mediation. He was the first vegetarian I knew. He owned four cab licenses in Portland. Then Uber came in and shredded his retirement plan. The cab company forced him out so he wouldn't even capitalize on the partial ownership of the land they owned.…

[deleted]

Re: It’s not the chemicals that cause addiction (2017)

#16

Post by benreesman »

It’s obviously better when there’s good data. People like myself who frequent HN often do because they want to hear an expert cut through the propaganda with the inside baseball on the real science.

And I hope someone does on this thread.

But in the absence of a qualified expert interpreting the inside data laypeople are as always thrown back on the thoughtfulness arbitrary creative force gave a rock and anecdata.

And this rings insanely true. My life never changed back from COVID lockdown, maybe that says more about me than the biggest natural experiment in arbitrary and sweeping human confinement probably ever: but I use more of everything from nicotine to caffeine to adderall now than when I was partying with a purpose ten years ago.

More substances more screen time more all of it. Being trapped on an island with 100 people sounds like a vacation from either the glass box I live and work in or the empty-seeming bars and coffee shops and comedy clubs in the half dozen cities I’ve traveled to this past year.

Lockdown was boom time for screen companies. Anyone got a vested interest in leaning on the delicate pressure points of really resuming IRL life?

Re: It’s not the chemicals that cause addiction (2017)

#17

Post by lowbloodsugar »

loeg wrote: post #4

Another rehashing of Rat Park, a dubious study which has never replicated. I’m pro legalization, but this isn’t a good angle for arguing that case. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rat_Park

Your link doesn't provide any evidence that the study was dubious. If anything the counter arguments seem dubious.

Re: It’s not the chemicals that cause addiction (2017)

#18

Post by SoftTalker »

benreesman wrote: post #16

It’s obviously better when there’s good data. People like myself who frequent HN often do because they want to hear an expert cut through the propaganda with the inside baseball on the real science. And I hope someone does on this thread. But in the absence of a qualified expert interpreting the inside data laypeople are as always thrown back on the thoughtfulness arbitrary creative force gave a rock and anecdata. An…

It sounds trite but just do it. Go out. Go to bars, go to the gym, go to the coffee shop, go to wherever people are congregating. Living cooped up in a box is no way to live. Unsurprising that the study in TFA found that creatures living in unhappy circumstances seek mood-altering substances more than those living more freely and naturally.

Re: It’s not the chemicals that cause addiction (2017)

#19

Post by kevinmchugh »

loeg wrote: post #4

Another rehashing of Rat Park, a dubious study which has never replicated. I’m pro legalization, but this isn’t a good angle for arguing that case. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rat_Park

The strongest conclusions from Rat Park should be that rodent studies are complicated by lab conditions. This probably doesn't sound too controversial (by now anyway). But because of the ideological or personal issues at play, it's easy to draw conclusions about humans from Rat Park.

Put another way, placebo studies show that attention and treatment alone get some level of result and that science is hard, not that sugar pills are a panacea.

Re: It’s not the chemicals that cause addiction (2017)

#20

Post by dang »

Related threads. I know there have been others - anybody have time to find them?

Rat Park - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19928803 - May 2019 (2 comments)

Addiction: The View from the Rat Park (2010) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10605524 - Nov 2015 (1 comment)

Rat Park - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9039039 - Feb 2015 (70 comments)

Rat Park drug experiment cartoon - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7742950 - May 2014 (22 comments)

Rat Park experiment upturns conventional wisdom about addiction - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6565426 - Oct 2013 (10 comments)

Rat Park Experiment: A New Theory of Addiction - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6391701 - Sept 2013 (42 comments)

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