Live data from Hacker News

Tesla: Not so easily bricked

idc-insights-community.com

151–160 of 161 posts

Re: Tesla: Not so easily bricked

#151
post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From a marketing and CRM perspective, the messages are identical : "Here is a simple and cheap routine maintenance behavior that will prevent a catastrophic repair bill: X". In the ICE case, X is "maintain a minimum oil level while the engine is running." In the Tesla case, it's "maintain a minimum battery level, even during storage." Given that the underlying drivetrain technologies actually are worlds-of-difference…

'simple and cheap': ICE: park it out the back... or in the street Tesla: Park it out the back... plugged into a trickle-charger... which is a $2k specialist item you have to have installed... and you can't use a long extension cord... and you can't just have it in the street, it'll need to be undercover, protected from rain... and away from the public, even in a nice neighbourhood...

Somehow, I don't think someone buying a Roadster has a problem parking it under cover, away from the public...

Re: Tesla: Not so easily bricked

#152
post #130
post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This blogger is wrong. A 'battery' is a collection of cells. The Tesla site is correct in stating that. Like 'battery hens' (many hens) or an artillery battery (group of artillery), a 'battery' means collection of power cells. Yes, common usage has made it also mean a single power cell - but this doesn't mean that the technical term is not correct.

The word battery doesn't mean that. It means to beat and batter. Which is what artillery does. The electrical meaning came much later, possibly from the electron discharges which looked like artillery attacks. I have no idea where battery cage came from. The original battery cages were warmed with electricity - maybe an actual battery?

New Oxford American Dictionary: ORIGIN Middle English: from French batterie, from battre ‘to strike,’ from Latin battuere. The original sense was ‘metal articles wrought by hammering,’ later ‘a number of pieces of artillery used together’; on this was based a sense ‘a number of Leyden jars connected up so as to discharge simultaneously’ (mid 18th cent.), from which sense 1 developed. The general meaning ‘a set or series of similar units’ ( sense 3) dates from the late 19th cent.

Re: Tesla: Not so easily bricked

#153
post #151
post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

'simple and cheap': ICE: park it out the back... or in the street Tesla: Park it out the back... plugged into a trickle-charger... which is a $2k specialist item you have to have installed... and you can't use a long extension cord... and you can't just have it in the street, it'll need to be undercover, protected from rain... and away from the public, even in a nice neighbourhood...

Somehow, I don't think someone buying a Roadster has a problem parking it under cover, away from the public...

Might they take a while to visit someone who doesn't have undercover parking or a $2k power adaptor installed?

From the article, it seems that while the roadster owners aren't burger-flippers, they're also not so wealthy that they can take a $40k loss on the chin.

Re: Tesla: Not so easily bricked

#154
post #150
post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The real issue is that those events are extremely rare given the intensely frequent use of ICE vehicles. Replace all the ICE with electric vehicles, and you'd see just as many electrocuted people. It's simply not a real argument.

It's a hell of a lot harder to electrocute yourself with a standard charging station than to set gasoline alight.

A "gas-fueled vehicle fire" happens during an accident, not at the refuelling station.

Re: Tesla: Not so easily bricked

#155
post #130
post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This blogger is wrong. A 'battery' is a collection of cells. The Tesla site is correct in stating that. Like 'battery hens' (many hens) or an artillery battery (group of artillery), a 'battery' means collection of power cells. Yes, common usage has made it also mean a single power cell - but this doesn't mean that the technical term is not correct.

The word battery doesn't mean that. It means to beat and batter. Which is what artillery does. The electrical meaning came much later, possibly from the electron discharges which looked like artillery attacks. I have no idea where battery cage came from. The original battery cages were warmed with electricity - maybe an actual battery?

An artillery battery is an organised group of artillery pieces. It is not a single artillery piece, nor is it used to refer to the effects on the target. It's a noun, not a verb. It's "the artillery battery pounded the Viet Cong", not "the artillery batteried the Viet Cong"

A battery of chickens is an organised group of chickens. The chickens don't batter anything, and neither do the cages

A doctor might order a battery of tests on you, or a schoolkid might take a battery of academic tests - both of these things mean 'organised and related grouping' and not 'batter you down'.

The idea of organised grouping probably came from artillery battery, but in the current day, one of the meanings of battery is most definitely 'an organised, related group'.

Re: Tesla: Not so easily bricked

#156
ICE cars have a number of problems that EVs don't:

ICEs depend on a single form of stored energy. The single source dependency creates a dependency between the functioning of the one's country's economy and the stable supply of a difficult to obtain resource from many countries with potentially hostile attitudes towards the country.

ICEs require a massive active infrastructure for refining and transporting oil. With EVs, you suddenly don't need to drive energy around in heavy chemical form except to a much smaller number of locations which can be serviced by much more efficient freight trains.

ICEs are extremely inefficient at extracting energy from oil compared to large turbines at power plants. So not only do you not have to spend energy and human labor driving chemical energy around to deliver it all over the place, you get more from that stored energy.

ICE cars are mechanically more complex than EVs, and they require more in the way of maintenance than EVs (the Roadster, an exotic sports car, has a recommended maintenance interval of once per 12k miles). EVs can be more modular, since they can have a simple electric motor on each wheel or axle instead of having a single engine with a complicated system of driveshafts and gearboxes to transfer mechanical forces all around the chassis. Also, no oil changes and no emissions checks.

Keep in mind that the problem described here mainly affected the first 500 cars Tesla ever built, and was largely mitigated in later versions. Overall, I think it is obvious that if the cost can be reduced to ICE car levels for 200+ miles of range, EVs will be the most practical form of automobile for all but long trips, and I think even the long-trip challenge will eventually be solved. I think it's really silly and a bit embarrassing to call the future of the electric vehicle into question over an early design flaw which exacerbated a problem which is really easy to mitigate, even in a fashion that requires no user intervention. The up-front cost of the vehicles due to the cost of batteries is 1000x more important in practical terms, and what we should be focusing our energy on.

Re: Tesla: Not so easily bricked

#157
"However the battery management system of the Roadster won't allow the car to reach that low level of charge."

The battery management system is in not position to not allow the battery to discharge itself over time. It can only stop the car from powering up to prevent active battery usage.

Re: Tesla: Not so easily bricked

#158
post #156

ICE cars have a number of problems that EVs don't: ICEs depend on a single form of stored energy. The single source dependency creates a dependency between the functioning of the one's country's economy and the stable supply of a difficult to obtain resource from many countries with potentially hostile attitudes towards the country. ICEs require a massive active infrastructure for refining and transporting oil. With…

Why the downvotes? I'm reasonably sure there aren't any inaccuracies in there, and I think it's important to remember all the downsides of our current cars versus electrics, especially when some commenters are claiming that the ICE has already proven itself and isn't on trial here. It most definitely is, and I think it's losing handily, regardless of some potential new complications with EVs.

Re: Tesla: Not so easily bricked

#159
post #158
post #156

ICE cars have a number of problems that EVs don't: ICEs depend on a single form of stored energy. The single source dependency creates a dependency between the functioning of the one's country's economy and the stable supply of a difficult to obtain resource from many countries with potentially hostile attitudes towards the country. ICEs require a massive active infrastructure for refining and transporting oil. With…

Why the downvotes? I'm reasonably sure there aren't any inaccuracies in there, and I think it's important to remember all the downsides of our current cars versus electrics, especially when some commenters are claiming that the ICE has already proven itself and isn't on trial here. It most definitely is, and I think it's losing handily, regardless of some potential new complications with EVs.

[deleted]

Re: Tesla: Not so easily bricked

#160
post #15

"Here's the primary fact that the blogger in question doesn't understand: the Tesla battery pack is not a battery." Gee, where might he have gotten that idea? Tesla's website and documentation, perhaps? "Custom microprocessor-controlled lithium-ion battery with 6,831 individual cells." Not 8K, huh; talk about getting your technical facts wrong. "Another error on the part of the blogger is the claim that if the cars d…

> Just asserted it was blatantly false and admitted it was true that full discharge damages the battery in the same paragraph, hoo boy. No. He stated that, while discharging an individual cell below a certain voltage will damage it, the battery management circuitry on each cell will not permit the battery to discharge past that point. It simply disconnects the battery from the circuit, which means the only leakage is…

"Another error on the part of the blogger is the claim that if the cars discharge fully, the battery packs will be damaged. This is blatantly false."

"It's true that a full discharge to zero percent state of charge can potentially be damaging to a battery."

Post reply on HN