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Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

theregister.com

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Re: Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

#621

Post by concordDance »

gamblor956 wrote: post #513
bboygravity wrote: post #345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This FUD is insane. You make it sounds like Tesla's with FSD on are crashing all the time. This makes no sense at all, because... they aren't?

I agree, the Fucked Up Deaths are insane. For point of comparison, the entire rest of the auto industry, worldwide has fewer advanced driver deaths than Tesla, despite millions more cars on the road with advanced driving functionality. On an absolute, and relative, basis Tesla advanced driving is the most dangerous advanced driving system in the world.

I'd love to know the numbers on this. How many crashes with advanced drivers enabled are there and how many miles of driving have they done?

Re: Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

#622

Post by concordDance »

belter wrote: post #123
szundi wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seemed to be completely OK, a driver who is on the safe side would have just done this exactly

If you stay there, blocking traffic for no reason, and do not proceed when you are clear to go, as it did until the driver accelerated, you will fail a driving license exam in most countries.

Here in the UK you'd be failed for blocking an intersection.

Re: Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

#623

Post by concordDance »

conroy wrote: post #262
gzer0 wrote: post #43

Friendly reminder that this system is HEAVILY limited, with the following restrictions: - Must be under 40 mph - Only during the daylight and only on certain highways - CANNOT be operated on city/country streets - CANNOT be operated in construction zones - CANNOT be during heavy rain or fog or flood roads And for comparison: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjZSZTKYEU4 Tesla FSD navigating the complex city streets of…

> Tesla FSD navigating the complex city streets of LA for 60 minutes with zero human intervention. 17 fatalities, 736 crashes: The shocking toll of Tesla’s Autopilot https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2023/06/10/tesla-a...

That's the number of crashes where Autopilot was enabled, not the number where it was at fault. So its a meaningless number.

Re: Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

#624

Post by capableweb »

Thorrez wrote: post #532
capableweb wrote: post #454

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Recently I was reading that in Europe, most cars sold don't even have automatic transmission I don't have any numbers regarding sales, but after renting 10s of cars in Europe during the last decade, it seems like they almost never have any manual cars anymore. In some countries, the entire fleet doesn't even include any manual ones anymore, I was told the last time I wanted to rent a car.

Even in Italy? Just now I went to Avis.com , set pick up in Rome tomorrow, drop off in Rome the day after, and it said there are 6 types of cars available, and 5 of those types have manual transmissions.

Call them instead and ask. Multiple times they have manual available on the website, but after choosing it and going there to pick it up, it turns out they don't even have manuals in their fleet! Incredible

Re: Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

#625

Post by ETH_start »

RandomLensman wrote: post #613
ETH_start wrote: post #451

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What those utilizing the transportation network are willing and able to pay to use the network will be directly proportional to how critical the usage of that transportation network is to economic function. So there is never any economic need to transfer the cost of using the transportation network from those using it, to taxpayers at large. In fact, socializing costs of transportation is what can cause economically…

Not everything needs to be done for purely economic purposes - that includes the creation and maintenance of transportation networks. Societies are free to have broader sets of objectives.

Of course. I was pushing back against the claim in the original post, which argued for socializing transportation costs on economic grounds:

>Transportation is a service that's critical to economic function.

Transportation is not amongst the subset of goods/services where having individual market actors pay for its production leads to economically sub-optimal under-production.

Whether transportation should be subsidized for other reasons is an entirely different subject.

Re: Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

#626

Post by psd1 »

afavour wrote: post #511
worik wrote: post #503

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We need high speed rail to connect our cities. Perhaps we need to slow down a bit, in general?

If the rail isn’t faster than the car then it won’t ever see wide scale adoption. It’s not even remotely difficult to clear this bar when the political will exists. Why slow down when there’s no actual need to?

I've paid more to take longer by train, for greater convenience and comfort.

I agree with your point in general, I'm just quibbling that speed is the decider.

Re: Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

#627

Post by FormerBandmate »

tuatoru wrote: post #589
afavour wrote: post #510

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You may not want to deal with the hassle but I wouldn’t assume that applies to everyone. A fully autonomous car (however unrealistic it may be) would be a game changer simply for the economics alone. Not paying full tax, insurance etc for a vehicle while retaining all of the transport possibility would be incredibly tempting to anyone on a budget. Not having to build housing with parking included could do great thing…

> Not having to build housing with parking included could do great things for housing availability. This is a purely political decision that does not depend on the availability of autonomous vehicles. It won't happen because it would reduce property prices.

It already happens. Tons of houses and apartments don't have garages, I'm living in one lmao

Re: Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

#628

Post by throwaway602088 »

jacquesm wrote: post #617
PeterStuer wrote: post #607

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Self driving cars are much more likely to be public transport than individually owened" I've only seen this as a 'just so' greenwash pr story from the automotive industry to offset the projected 300% increase in total road miles driven anually. Please explain why peole would be compelled to ditch their multidude of private cars just because they now come with a 24/7 free driver included?

Indeed, that's the elephant in the room. Self driving cars by virtue of being self driving can be sent on trips by themselves without requiring the driver to be present. The presence of a driver is a limiting factor, once that one drops away there will be many more trips. Suddenly kids can use the car and all kinds of pick up and delivery jobs become cost effective in a way that they are not today.

Can’t wait for those human-less boxes rolling downtown carefree… what a fun time we’re gonna have painting and blasting their sensors.

Re: Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

#629

Post by WickyNilliams »

XajniN wrote: post #459
capableweb wrote: post #454

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Recently I was reading that in Europe, most cars sold don't even have automatic transmission I don't have any numbers regarding sales, but after renting 10s of cars in Europe during the last decade, it seems like they almost never have any manual cars anymore. In some countries, the entire fleet doesn't even include any manual ones anymore, I was told the last time I wanted to rent a car.

That’s true for rentals, they don’t want idiots screwing up their gearboxes. But, most cars on the streets are manuals, and you can’t get a driver’s license if you don’t know how to drive one.

You can get an automatic-only license in the UK AFAIK. But I don't know anybody that has that.

Re: Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

#630

Post by RandomLensman »

ETH_start wrote: post #625
RandomLensman wrote: post #613

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not everything needs to be done for purely economic purposes - that includes the creation and maintenance of transportation networks. Societies are free to have broader sets of objectives.

Of course. I was pushing back against the claim in the original post, which argued for socializing transportation costs on economic grounds: > Transportation is a service that's critical to economic function. Transportation is not amongst the subset of goods/services where having individual market actors pay for its production leads to economically sub-optimal under-production. Whether transportation should be subsid…

I am a bit less convinced about the "optimalities" in practice, because differences in funding costs, risk preferences etc. can lead to inefficiencies in the real world that a state actor could bridge.
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