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Ted Kaczynski has died

nytimes.com

671–680 of 823 posts

Re: Ted Kaczynski has died

#671
post #664

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He was not a terrorist because of his mental health issues, he was a terrorist because of his convictions. No excuses.

Can you cite a reference for that?

The sprectrum for mental illness is too broad that anyone can fit into it one way or another.

Not all mentally ill person are movitvated as these evil few.

Re: Ted Kaczynski has died

#672
post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would his methods be credible if he was doing it in the 40s and they were directed against nazi intelligentsia for example?

LOL wut? I'm not a ChatGPT prompt - use your own critical thinking skills for your thought experiment.

[deleted]

Re: Ted Kaczynski has died

#673
post #599
post #567

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had a different take on his writings than yours. Rather than thinking his solution was bad, he encouraged me to question why we “spend our days improving humanity”. What does “improving humanity” even mean? What’s the metric we are optimizing for? Are we, humanity, any happier than we were when we were hunter-gatherer tribes? I don’t think so - we’ve just found new metrics to focus on and to be disappointed in ours…

> Are we, humanity, any happier than we were when we were hunter-gatherer tribes? I don’t think so - we’ve just found new metrics to focus on and to be disappointed in ourselves in. This seems crazy to me, leaning heavily on the proof that you yourself obviously are not choosing that life when you easily could. It’s possible in the same way that anything is possible, but cmon - the world is objectively less violent,…

you misunderstand inner peace.

inner peace is a peace which cannot be disturbed by external circumstances.

inner peace means peace even amid disease. peace even amid violence.

Re: Ted Kaczynski has died

#674

Anyone who disagrees with Kaczynski's ideas because they came from a convicted terrorist should read the works of Jacques Ellul instead, of which Kaczynski's was largely a popular reduction. The Technological Society is the clearest influence on Kaczynski's manifesto, but Propaganda: The Formation of Men's Attitudes is possibly more pertinent in this day and age. Ellul was a professor, a pacifist, and a Christian ana…

> Anyone who disagrees with Kaczynski's ideas because they came from a convicted terrorist should read the works of Jacques Ellul instead I refuse to read or become exposed to some ideas because one of their proponents murdered people. I want this strategy to be less effective, not more.

But the very fact that Kaczynski's ideas were widely published and read directly led to his arrest. If the consideration is to be purely strategic, his case should be an argument in favor of dissemination.

Re: Ted Kaczynski has died

#675
post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would his methods be credible if he was doing it in the 40s and they were directed against nazi intelligentsia for example?

LOL wut? I'm not a ChatGPT prompt - use your own critical thinking skills for your thought experiment.

[deleted]

Re: Ted Kaczynski has died

#676

Anyone who disagrees with Kaczynski's ideas because they came from a convicted terrorist should read the works of Jacques Ellul instead, of which Kaczynski's was largely a popular reduction. The Technological Society is the clearest influence on Kaczynski's manifesto, but Propaganda: The Formation of Men's Attitudes is possibly more pertinent in this day and age. Ellul was a professor, a pacifist, and a Christian ana…

“Do you like the unabomber’s ideas but get embarrassed when you talk about the unabomber in front of your friends? Try talking about Ellul instead, you might sound more worldly that way”

Re: Ted Kaczynski has died

#677

Anyone who disagrees with Kaczynski's ideas because they came from a convicted terrorist should read the works of Jacques Ellul instead, of which Kaczynski's was largely a popular reduction. The Technological Society is the clearest influence on Kaczynski's manifesto, but Propaganda: The Formation of Men's Attitudes is possibly more pertinent in this day and age. Ellul was a professor, a pacifist, and a Christian ana…

> Anyone who disagrees with Kaczynski's ideas because they came from a convicted terrorist should read the works of Jacques Ellul instead I refuse to read or become exposed to some ideas because one of their proponents murdered people. I want this strategy to be less effective, not more.

It sounds like the easiest way for ideas to be killed, then, is for a few abhorrent people to champion them.

Re: Ted Kaczynski has died

#678

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We're talking about someone who suffered from very serious mental illness. And we're talking about stochastic processes. We can agree that killing people or trying to kill people is terrible, but I'd stress the mental illness part so perhaps society will get serious about treating mental illness with seriousness. Our cities are full of mentally ill people living on the streets. Are they a ticking time bomb? was Kaczy…

Seriously, why do we so often see mental illness as an excuse for simple evil? As far as I know in most non-authoritarian countries if a mentally ill person commits a crime the factor that decides if they get punishment, treatment, or both is not if they are mentally ill, but if they knew what they were doing at the time was wrong. The burden of proving that is on the defense and it's not easy to do so as it should b…

It's not an excuse, but at some point there is little else to be done. The benefit of society as a whole must be considered.

Take as an example pedophiles. There is a movement in the netherlands which tries to implore them to speak up about their "dark" desires and seek help. In which case they should be helped. But once they have acted on their inner demons I don't see how we should just say well they weren't themselves.

Re: Ted Kaczynski has died

#679
post #648

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This seems crazy to me, leaning heavily on the proof that you yourself obviously are not choosing that life when you easily could. Can someone do this? Find a place you can live and hunt for free that isn't incredibly difficult to survive in because of its inhospitable climate or lack of resources.

I mean, Africa and LA seem like strong contenders. Most non-rich nations, really. One could say “but I want somewhere safer” but obviously that would be a little bit self-defeating, ideology-wise. “For free” is also pretty much impossible, especially if you factor in travel, but my intuition tells me that a very modest American or European savings could buy access to land somewhere . Especially if you sold all your p…

I mean, humans are a social species, and tribal societies that live off the land have a chain of countless generations passing down wisdom and customs to train their people on how to effectively survive in their respective environments, and still they rely on their community to effectively do so.

To take a single (or even a couple) of fully formed adults without any of that lifelong education and training, who are accustomed to a wholly different environment and way of life, and to drop them into a survival situation without that surrounding community to rely on, seems like an obvious recipe for failure.

Not that I’m arguing that tribal life is actually desirable over a modern western lifestyle.

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