Ted Kaczynski has died • Hacker News Board

Re: Ted Kaczynski has died

#581

Post by xorbax » Sun, Jun 11, 2023, 4:05 AM UTC

sizzle wrote: post #463

DyslexicAtheist wrote: post #429

Earlier quoted context omitted.

thanks for posting and sorry for your loss. I've heard the name TK first when reading Bill Joy's "Why the Future Doesn't Need Us". 15 years later I was burnt out and increasingly aware that Tech was not a force of good. I went on a 3 year journey trying to understand what made TK chose violence. It can't just be the struggle of a Pollak getting people to pronounce his name correctly, however hard that is. I started b…

This is incredible, do you have a blog documenting this journey? You must be one of the few people on earth, if not only person, to have done this. What are you up to nowadays after this profound experience? Ever tried psilocybin?

> This is incredible, do you have a blog documenting

This feels like a joke. Even more than "I lived in the woods for years so I could figure out a mailbomber"

TK was mentally ill. Cutting himself off from society was a symptom, not the cause. Being a mimic doesn't give insight into the original aside from the act.

Re: Ted Kaczynski has died

#582

Post by pixl97 » Sun, Jun 11, 2023, 4:08 AM UTC

nine_k wrote: post #556

DyslexicAtheist wrote: post #429

Earlier quoted context omitted.

thanks for posting and sorry for your loss. I've heard the name TK first when reading Bill Joy's "Why the Future Doesn't Need Us". 15 years later I was burnt out and increasingly aware that Tech was not a force of good. I went on a 3 year journey trying to understand what made TK chose violence. It can't just be the struggle of a Pollak getting people to pronounce his name correctly, however hard that is. I started b…

Thank you; this elucidates a lot. So it boils down to a question: would you exchange the life of a lone top predator (in a forest with a firearm) to any other kind of life? For some people the answer would be in favor of the top predator life. To choose the life of a tiger, one just should stop loving anyone. After this, killing becomes mere killing (predators do not "murder"), and the whole idea of destroying everyo…

I expect we'll see more people take up TK's manifesto if generational AI starts taking over jobs and causing displacement in the next few years. Technology won't even give other people the power to become the enemy, it will be the direct enemy.

Re: Ted Kaczynski has died

#583

Post by brvsft » Sun, Jun 11, 2023, 4:08 AM UTC

Invictus0 wrote: post #369

brvsft wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This moral argument doesn't really work on people from the US after about 20 years of global militarism, especially that whole stint in Iraq and Afghanistan. I hate murder as much as the next guy, but our political and military leaders constantly make decisions that result in needless deaths. You don't even know how upset I personally was after voting for Obama and seeing him continue using drones to target terrorist…

You know what we did before drones were developed? Carpet bombs. Drones are a huge improvement.

Sorry, I forgot about carpet bombs and nukes. You're right, dronebombing a terrorist and killing an innocent child in the process is net actually good because even worse bombs existed and were used sometimes in the past.

Everything the US government and military does is good, and Ted Kaczynski was bad, especially the terrible things he wrote. I promise I will buy more of these new Apple products, in resistance of Mr. Kaczynski's evil message. *I place my hand on my chest patriotically.* I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America.

Re: Ted Kaczynski has died

#584

Post by xorvoid » Sun, Jun 11, 2023, 4:09 AM UTC

tymekpavel wrote: post #503

DyslexicAtheist wrote: post #429

Earlier quoted context omitted.

thanks for posting and sorry for your loss. I've heard the name TK first when reading Bill Joy's "Why the Future Doesn't Need Us". 15 years later I was burnt out and increasingly aware that Tech was not a force of good. I went on a 3 year journey trying to understand what made TK chose violence. It can't just be the struggle of a Pollak getting people to pronounce his name correctly, however hard that is. I started b…

I’m sure you didn’t mean it, but in the English language “Pollak” and its variations are derogatory terms for people of Polish descent. The preferred term is “Pole.”

I also came here to say this. Thank you! It’s a slur and not everyone seems to realize that…

Re: Ted Kaczynski has died

#585

Post by carabiner » Sun, Jun 11, 2023, 4:10 AM UTC

pyuser583 wrote: post #569

spencerchubb wrote: post #557

I don't find Ted Kaczynski's manifesto to be insightful. It points out that technology has flaws, which is frankly quite obvious and is a fact that everyone already agrees with. Furthermore, his proposed solution is crap. He proposes that we just go back to wilderness, which is bad for many obvious reasons. Technology and division of labor has allowed us to spend our days improving humanity rather than finding food j…

It’s not insightful. But it’s obvious he is highly educated, and familiar with academic culture. I don’t understand how the FBI profiled him as poorly educated.

They profiled him based on the bombs, which had deliberate crudeness and mistakes as red herrings. They hadn't seen the manifesto at that point.

Re: Ted Kaczynski has died

#586

Post by bbor » Sun, Jun 11, 2023, 4:10 AM UTC

FrustratedMonky wrote: post #247

californiadreem wrote: post #32

Anyone who disagrees with Kaczynski's ideas because they came from a convicted terrorist should read the works of Jacques Ellul instead, of which Kaczynski's was largely a popular reduction. The Technological Society is the clearest influence on Kaczynski's manifesto, but Propaganda: The Formation of Men's Attitudes is possibly more pertinent in this day and age. Ellul was a professor, a pacifist, and a Christian ana…

Agree, Kaczynski did make some good points. Maybe if he had learned to channel that energy better.

What points resonate with you? With as much sincerity as I can express, I’ve gotta ask: why aren’t you living in the woods if you think the guy who said that industrial society was a mistake “had some good points”?

Re: Ted Kaczynski has died

#587

Post by bbor » Sun, Jun 11, 2023, 4:11 AM UTC

NovaDudely wrote: post #529

FrustratedMonky wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agree, Kaczynski did make some good points. Maybe if he had learned to channel that energy better.

That is the saddest thing. He had some great ideas and knew how to communicate them. He just didn't think he would be taken seriously unless he used the bomb cheat code on life to get notoriety. I suspect that if he had gone the path of writer with publishing, not only would his works be more popular, there would have actually been a realistic means of implementing some of his ideas. He had some great ideas and simul…

Which ideas? Everyone keeps saying this but I’d love specifics.

Re: Ted Kaczynski has died

#588

Post by retrocryptid » Sun, Jun 11, 2023, 4:20 AM UTC

op00to wrote: post #235

sillysaurusx wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As asinine as it sounds, I agree with them. In this specific case, there’s no reason to believe that a completed bomb is the same as an intent to bomb anybody. I’d be surprised if any 20-year veteran bomb builder didn’t have a couple fully-working prototypes, the same reason I’d be surprised a 20-year veteran coder had no fully functional prototypes. Crafting is crafting, whether you’re doing woodworking or killing.…

Dude. There is a difference between a bomb that has significant ability to kill and destroy and sample code.

I'm guessing you've never written code for nuclear device, then.

Re: Ted Kaczynski has died

#589

Post by pixl97 » Sun, Jun 11, 2023, 4:22 AM UTC

emodendroket wrote: post #564

lm28469 wrote: post #418

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People might know or not know each opinion he expressed, and might reasonably agree or disagree with each one Isn't that the definition of agreeing (or not) with someone ? > but that's not the same thing. How so ?

He forced his way into the conversation through terrorism. It seems reasonable enough to reject his ideas out of hand rather than give them respectful hearing.

This gets messy quick. If for example you lived under a dictator and that dictator didn't like your conversation then you wouldn't expect to have a venue unless you took extreme measures.

Now let's say that you think AI was an existential threat to humanity and we were all going to die because of it. In your mind would it matter if you blew up 10 people? 100 people? 1000000 people? I mean in your mind they are all dead anyway and if this is the price to pay to stop it, it will have been worth it.

Re: Ted Kaczynski has died

#590

Post by sillysaurusx » Sun, Jun 11, 2023, 4:22 AM UTC

bigDinosaur wrote: post #578

sillysaurusx wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As asinine as it sounds, I agree with them. In this specific case, there’s no reason to believe that a completed bomb is the same as an intent to bomb anybody. I’d be surprised if any 20-year veteran bomb builder didn’t have a couple fully-working prototypes, the same reason I’d be surprised a 20-year veteran coder had no fully functional prototypes. Crafting is crafting, whether you’re doing woodworking or killing.…

Yes, that does sound asinine.

I agree. And history shows that it’s important to acknowledge skill in situations like this. One of the primary reasons Germany was so deadly to my ancestors is due to the oratory genius of one man. I’ve been reading though The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich, which is a fantastic and dispassionate analysis of such evil. It makes you question what might’ve been different had others studied the means by which evil people exert power, as Ted has done here.

Remember, authorities weren’t able to catch him. His family turned him in. It’s only through luck that his spree came to an end. That alone makes his particular case worth intensive analysis.