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Ted Kaczynski has died

nytimes.com

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Re: Ted Kaczynski has died

#571

Post by rlt »

JshWright wrote: post #505
bkohlmann wrote: post #352

One of my good friend’s dad was brutally murdered by Kaczynski when she was a young teenager. A small bomb in a package that used razor blazes, nails, and other bits of metal to nearly tear his head off while his young family was in the house with him. And it turns out the victim was the “wrong” man, as he didn’t even work on the project Kaczynski wanted to bring “retribution” for. Kaczynski May have said some intere…

Your friend’s dad’s death is also my (very trivial) connection to Kaczynski. That morning our family had gone Christmas tree shopping, and the tree was scheduled to be delivered later that day. As it turned out, the delivery driver was also a Verona volunteer firefighter and ended up responding to the explosion, delaying our tree to the next day. It’s a super trivial connection, but it has always stuck with me.

“My good friend’s dad was brutally murdered”

“My delivery was delayed”

Maybe not the place for it.

Re: Ted Kaczynski has died

#572

Post by ip26 »

spurgu wrote: post #527
shrimpx wrote: post #450

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This "third position" is basically anarchy, or anarcho-primitivism. It's not really a political position, it's more like a pathological insistence that civilization should be destroyed. Kaczynski went as far as saying we're biologically wired to live primitive lives and we're misusing ourselves in perversions that he calls 'surrogate activities', which include science and art. To him, hunting or trying to survive whi…

I'd say it's more about autonomy, self-sufficiency and freedom, rather than just "living primitive lives". Technological progress tends to stifle all of the above, in the grand scheme of things. Think about owning horses back in the day, which you could simply breed to get more of. You could travel freely pretty much anywhere, no roads required. Compare that to a car which is manufactured somewhere far away with tons…

Living hand-to-mouth in the bush offers certain kinds of autonomy and freedom, but lacks others. Your stomach is not a lenient master.

Re: Ted Kaczynski has died

#573

Post by edgyquant »

karmakurtisaani wrote: post #250
jmull wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He’s really not coherent. His premises aren’t grounded in reality, and his conclusions don’t follow logically from his premises. It’s also lacks humanity or empathy. It’s an interesting read, because you can really see a broken mind at work, but there’s really not anything to learn from the ideas themselves. E.g., his mental model of “leftists” is truly bizarre. It would be funny except I know what it lead to.

He can't even define who the leftists are and even admits it. > Our discussion of leftism has a serious weakness. It is still far from clear what we mean by the word “leftist.” There doesn’t seem to be much we can do about this. To- day leftism is fragmented into a whole spectrum of activist movements ... > To the extent that it is defined at all, our conception of leftism is defined by the discussion of it that we h…

Sounds like he gives a prettier clear cut definition of the demographic. You even admit to being apart of it at the end of your comment.

Re: Ted Kaczynski has died

#574

Post by notjulianjaynes »

spurgu wrote: post #527
shrimpx wrote: post #450

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This "third position" is basically anarchy, or anarcho-primitivism. It's not really a political position, it's more like a pathological insistence that civilization should be destroyed. Kaczynski went as far as saying we're biologically wired to live primitive lives and we're misusing ourselves in perversions that he calls 'surrogate activities', which include science and art. To him, hunting or trying to survive whi…

I'd say it's more about autonomy, self-sufficiency and freedom, rather than just "living primitive lives". Technological progress tends to stifle all of the above, in the grand scheme of things. Think about owning horses back in the day, which you could simply breed to get more of. You could travel freely pretty much anywhere, no roads required. Compare that to a car which is manufactured somewhere far away with tons…

>Think about owning horses back in the day, which you could simply breed to get more of. You could travel freely pretty much anywhere, no roads required. Compare that to a car which is manufactured somewhere far away with tons of special expertise and which basically cannot be repaired by a layman anymore (as opposed to not too many decades ago). And you rely on a huge infrastructure network for building and maintaining the roads.

How about the externalities and technological advancements nessecary to domesticate wild horses, and also the infastructure networks which drove the need and ability to create a ship capable of transporting those horses across the Atlantic ocean to America, where they are not a native species.

Re: Ted Kaczynski has died

#575

Post by bbor »

resolutebat wrote: post #525
bbor wrote: post #517

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>He justifies the trade-offs that come with losing industrial society as being worth the cost. That is fucking deranged. Describing it as deranged is an understatement, and it blows my mind that you’re defending it _on an internet forum_. Only someone who’s never seen someone die of violence or disease could ever say some shit like that. Today is reminding me that I need to take hacker news commenters much less serio…

His argument is basically that industrial society increases net suffering from violence and disease, because large populations are unsustainable and rely on the exploitation of the third world's poor. So instead of having one person die from a curable infection because nobody has antibiotics, you have five dying of infections because the population has exploded and antibiotics exist but they can't afford them.

The proof for that being vibes? Your specific example is quite obviously false in my eyes, but maybe I’m missing something obvious. How is some antibiotics worse than no antibiotics?

I mean unless his stance was that a higher population is inherently bad because there’s more people to experience suffering? But surely all these people in this thread don’t support something THAT dumb.

I’m so lost and his wiki page isn’t helping

Re: Ted Kaczynski has died

#576

Post by xorbax »

rlt wrote: post #571
JshWright wrote: post #505

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your friend’s dad’s death is also my (very trivial) connection to Kaczynski. That morning our family had gone Christmas tree shopping, and the tree was scheduled to be delivered later that day. As it turned out, the delivery driver was also a Verona volunteer firefighter and ended up responding to the explosion, delaying our tree to the next day. It’s a super trivial connection, but it has always stuck with me.

“My good friend’s dad was brutally murdered” “My delivery was delayed” Maybe not the place for it.

It's not that big a transgression

It also makes a map of human affect. We can all pretend such a thing matters, but most horrors never touch our life and would never be known without the news.

The fact that a random guy gave his spare time to help others is notable. The key point is the Christmas tree deliverer being a first responder. It's a hell of a thing.

Re: Ted Kaczynski has died

#577

Post by bbor »

spurgu wrote: post #521
bbor wrote: post #517

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>He justifies the trade-offs that come with losing industrial society as being worth the cost. That is fucking deranged. Describing it as deranged is an understatement, and it blows my mind that you’re defending it _on an internet forum_. Only someone who’s never seen someone die of violence or disease could ever say some shit like that. Today is reminding me that I need to take hacker news commenters much less serio…

Wait, whom are you quoting (and responding to) here? In any case it sounds like you're describing a trolley problem (where people die whatever option you choose and you might pick the one killing less).

I think the parent comment was deleted? And I’m quoting the wiki on his manifesto.

I don’t see “no action or choice is perfectly good” as an excuse to take bs like “what if disease and famine and ignorance are good for us” seriously.

And that’s not really what the trolley problem is about, AFAIU it’s about agency and culpability - I think you’re more discussing basic utilitarianism?

Re: Ted Kaczynski has died

#578

Post by bigDinosaur »

sillysaurusx wrote: post #184
irq wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who wants to keep live bombs in their house? Obviously he was going to put them elsewhere. Which is what planting is.

As asinine as it sounds, I agree with them. In this specific case, there’s no reason to believe that a completed bomb is the same as an intent to bomb anybody. I’d be surprised if any 20-year veteran bomb builder didn’t have a couple fully-working prototypes, the same reason I’d be surprised a 20-year veteran coder had no fully functional prototypes. Crafting is crafting, whether you’re doing woodworking or killing.…

Yes, that does sound asinine.

Re: Ted Kaczynski has died

#579

Post by bbor »

rlt wrote: post #571
JshWright wrote: post #505

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your friend’s dad’s death is also my (very trivial) connection to Kaczynski. That morning our family had gone Christmas tree shopping, and the tree was scheduled to be delivered later that day. As it turned out, the delivery driver was also a Verona volunteer firefighter and ended up responding to the explosion, delaying our tree to the next day. It’s a super trivial connection, but it has always stuck with me.

“My good friend’s dad was brutally murdered” “My delivery was delayed” Maybe not the place for it.

Not great reading comprehension, friend - they’re not complaining, but reminiscing.

Re: Ted Kaczynski has died

#580

Post by 31337Logic »

rlt wrote: post #571
JshWright wrote: post #505

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your friend’s dad’s death is also my (very trivial) connection to Kaczynski. That morning our family had gone Christmas tree shopping, and the tree was scheduled to be delivered later that day. As it turned out, the delivery driver was also a Verona volunteer firefighter and ended up responding to the explosion, delaying our tree to the next day. It’s a super trivial connection, but it has always stuck with me.

“My good friend’s dad was brutally murdered” “My delivery was delayed” Maybe not the place for it.

He said the connection was super trivial.

I think you're mistaken - I think it's precisely the right place for such a comment.

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