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Apple M2 Ultra SoC isn’t faster than AMD and Intel last year desktop CPUs

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341–350 of 448 posts

Re: Apple M2 Ultra SoC isn’t faster than AMD and Intel last year desktop CPUs

#341
It's pretty clear from the rumors that Apple wanted a quad-die CPU for the Mac Pro (which would have had double this performance) but couldn't get it working, and had to compromise here to get anything out.

I wonder if they'll give up on going past 2 dies and leave their high-end eternally lacking or if there is something else coming down the pipe.

Re: Apple M2 Ultra SoC isn’t faster than AMD and Intel last year desktop CPUs

#342
post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

can someone recommend a concrete laptop then, please? I have been putting off the buying of a new one for years now. (I have an old XPS 13 and a P50 with an M1000M, so ... yeah, old dogs!) I want to put Linux on it. So far I have been looking at the legion 5 pro, because a friend got one recently, and seems amazing, though haven't yet got my hands on it long enough to try it with an USB stick with a recent Ubuntu (wi…

From what I’ve read and seen, Linux is the worst option if you’re concerned about battery life.

This is basically down to some hardware vendors writing crappy Linux drivers that don't include power saving features, while also not documenting the hardware so no one else can do it either. But that's only true of specific devices. For example, this is claimed to have 14 hours of battery life, on Linux:

https://system76.com/laptops/lemur

Re: Apple M2 Ultra SoC isn’t faster than AMD and Intel last year desktop CPUs

#343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Microsoft has implemented driver signing with Windows so not sure what the issue is. And users can still use unsigned drivers provided they disable the option.

Apple has beef with the worlds largest GPU maker and refuses to sign their drivers because they got screwed by that company over a laptop GPU a decade ago and still hold a grudge. Microsoft on the other hand, is run by adults.

Where can you get these drivers that exist but just aren't signed?

Re: Apple M2 Ultra SoC isn’t faster than AMD and Intel last year desktop CPUs

#344
post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we forget about servers.

Which we should because no one is using a Mac as a server.

They should (or equivalent product). ARMv8 processors are much more secure than x86 and will continue to improve in ARMv9.

Re: Apple M2 Ultra SoC isn’t faster than AMD and Intel last year desktop CPUs

#345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But many of us don't want that performance to come in a large tower that requires fans to be constantly running. I own a Mac Studio and PC 10980xe with 4090 and the latter has to live in a separate room because of the noise.

I don’t know what tower case you are using, or what cooling system you have set up, but in modern times, if you hear much noise from your cooling solution, you have chosen components poorly. From fans to pumps to dampened cases, you could have build a relatively silent system.

How many hours of research and people on forums yelling at you do you have to go through before you do that?

I built a fairly stock PC, it is not silent and needs BIOS undervolting and custom fan curves to get there, and most recently I found updating the BIOS erases all of that.

Also built a NAS (which is too loud so I'd like to rebuild it) and the one time I reported a bug to FreeNAS a graybeard yelled at me on Bugzilla for not building a 1U server with fans that sound like an airplane taking off.

Re: Apple M2 Ultra SoC isn’t faster than AMD and Intel last year desktop CPUs

#346
post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought the whole idea of M2 was “exceptional product given the power consumption”. I don’t mind that it has nothing to show for all the talk once you throw out the need to basically sip power (like a notebook computer). Is this something inherent with ARM though? Why can’t there be ARM based desktop and server computers that need a kilowatt of power at peak? Like how much more performance can you get for each addi…

> I thought the whole idea of M2 was “exceptional product given the power consumption”. When running native code. Look at the performance of Microsoft's ARM Surface Pro when running emulated code. > My frustration with this computer wasn’t a workload thing. It didn’t start out fast and gradually slow down as I opened more things and started more processes. It was peppered with glitches and freezes from start to finis…

Rosetta is much more efficient than this translator, partially through hardware acceleration.

Re: Apple M2 Ultra SoC isn’t faster than AMD and Intel last year desktop CPUs

#347
post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought the whole idea of M2 was “exceptional product given the power consumption”. I don’t mind that it has nothing to show for all the talk once you throw out the need to basically sip power (like a notebook computer). Is this something inherent with ARM though? Why can’t there be ARM based desktop and server computers that need a kilowatt of power at peak? Like how much more performance can you get for each addi…

I was one told that memory and bus bandwidth often creates disparity between benchmark and application performances in ARM CPUs. That was years ago and supposedly don’t apply to custom designs like M2, but maybe both Intel and AMD are still advantageous in that region?

No, M2's memory bandwidth is much better than theirs since it's a unified memory design. (Latency isn't any better though.)

Re: Apple M2 Ultra SoC isn’t faster than AMD and Intel last year desktop CPUs

#348
post #280
post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The CPU is rarely a bottleneck for AAA games, so unless the x86 emulation is particularly terrible (Rosetta isn't) it shouldn't be the issue. WINE on Linux is able to match the performance of games on Windows, so the DirectX translation layer shouldn't be a problem either. So it's not unreasonable to assume that the M2 just doesn't have a GPU capable of running these games. And it's really not that surprising that an…

> The CPU is rarely a bottleneck for AAA games I mean… No? CPU bottleneck is super common, especially on slightly older engine bases like source or unreal. I think you are assuming big AAA games at 4k, which puts an especially big strain on the GPU. Maybe I’ve been developing games too long, but we are constantly fighting CPU bottlenecks.

PC game players tend to believe you can't play a game unless you bought the latest custom hardware for all of it and put all the settings on maximum.

Game developers are much more willing to run their work on lower end machines if they'll get paid for it, or at least they're more capable of tuning for it.

Re: Apple M2 Ultra SoC isn’t faster than AMD and Intel last year desktop CPUs

#349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple has beef with the worlds largest GPU maker and refuses to sign their drivers because they got screwed by that company over a laptop GPU a decade ago and still hold a grudge. Microsoft on the other hand, is run by adults.

Where can you get these drivers that exist but just aren't signed?

[deleted]

Re: Apple M2 Ultra SoC isn’t faster than AMD and Intel last year desktop CPUs

#350

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're doing it too. You're assuming how someone would define a workstation, you're assuming that definition includes it being power hungry. A workstation can be a single core, 256MB RAM, 1 watt SBC. It can be a 96 core, 2TB RAM, 1 kw beast. It can be anything in between or even outside of that range. I'm not saying everyone cares about power consumption, but several people here seem to be saying that no one does, an…

> A workstation is a special computer designed for technical or scientific applications https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Workstation Generally, 1 low performance core with 256RAM is not enough for technical or scientific applications. Not many professions you could get away with those kind of specs really.

Well, this wikipedia article mentions thin clients as lower end workstations.

I would not call a computer with a single low performance core and 256 MB RAM a workstation either, but for a 4GB/8GB RPi 4, that term seems applicable.

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