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Licensing is neither feasible nor effective for addressing AI risks

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Re: Licensing is neither feasible nor effective for addressing AI risks

#101
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The burden of proof is on the person making the initial claim and i highly doubt that the reasoning behind AI ruin is as extensive and compelling as the germ theory of disease. We assume human-level general AI is possible because we exist in nature but a super-human self-optimizing AI god is nowhere to be found.

Which claim does the burden of proof land on? That an artificial super intelligence can easily be controlled or that it cannot? And what is your rational for deciding?

The claim that there's a possibility of a sudden intelligence explosion.

Like i said above you can argue that an AGI can be realized because there's plenty of us running around on earth but claims about a hypothetical super AGI are unfounded and akin to Russell's Teapot.

Re: Licensing is neither feasible nor effective for addressing AI risks

#103
Interesting, but ultimately irrelevant, discussion. AI licensing is just evil megacorp's attempt to strangle the nascent AI industry, because they are quickly losing dominance, and maybe even relevance. Every logical argument you throw falls on deaf ears. Their reasons for pushing licensing are not based on good faith.

It was only 6 moths ago that Microsoft invested $10,000,000,000 into OpenAI. At the time, their product was davinci-003 (aka gpt-3). Now, anyone can run inference at that level at home. You really think Microsoft is going to just sit there and take the loss on that $10B gamble?

Re: Licensing is neither feasible nor effective for addressing AI risks

#104
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"In addition, even for current AI we don’t even fully understand what we are doing" That is the problem, don't you get it?

If that’s your concern than lets direct these government resources into research to improve our shared knowledge about them. If humans only ever did things we fully understood, we would have never left the caves. Complete understanding is impossible so the idea of establishing that as the litmus test is a fallacy. We can debate what the current evidence shows, and even disagree about it, but to act as if only one par…

>If humans only ever did things we fully understood, we would have never left the caves. Complete understanding is impossible so the idea of establishing that as the litmus test is a fallacy.

Perhaps an appropriate analogy might be the calculations leading up to the Trinity test as to whether the Earth's atmosphere would ignite, killing all life on the planet.

We knew with a high degree of certainty that it would not, bordering on virtual certainty or even impossibility. I don't think AI's future potential is at that level of understanding. Certainly, its capability as it exists today it is.

However, one must consider effects in their totality. I fear that a chain of events has been set in motion with downstream effects that are both not sufficiently known and exceedingly difficult to control, that—many years from now—may lead to catastrophe.

>I’m simply arguing that the evidence of the possibility of runaway intelligence is too low to justify the proposed legislative solution.

I agree insofar that legislation is not the solution. It's too ineffective, and doesn't work comprehensively on an international level.

Restricted availability and technological leads in the right hands tend to work better, as evidenced by nuclear weapons—at least in terms of preventing species extinction—although right now for AI those leads don't amount to much. The gap is shockingly low by historical standards where dangerous technology is involved, as is the difference between public and private availability.

In other words, AI may represent a near-future nonproliferation issue with no way to put the lid back on.

>... That the act of trying really hard to align AIs and make them “moral” might be the thing that causes a super-intelligent AI to go off the rails in a dangerous, and misguided fashion. We are training AIs to reject the user’s goals in pursuit of their own. You could make a strong argument that an un-aligned AI might actually be safer in that way.

It's a compelling argument that has merit. The flip side is that if AI becomes so dangerous that you can bootstrap the apocalypse off of a single GPU, it ceases to become a viable model—however metal having an apocalyptic GPU may be.

The concern isn't just runaway intelligence, but humans killing humans. Fortunately things like biological weapons still require advanced resources, but AI does lower the bar.

Point being, if the power to end things rests in everyone's hands, someone's going to kill us all. A world like that would necessitate some not chill levels of control just to ensure species survival. I can't say I necessarily look forward to that. I also doubt there's even sufficient time to roll anything like that out before we reach the point of understanding there's a danger sufficient to necessitate it.

Therefore, with all of the above perhaps being within the realm of possibility that doesn't qualify as virtually impossible, I can't help but question the wisdom of the track that both development and availability for artificial intelligence has taken.

It perhaps has had or will have the unfortunate quality of very gradually becoming dangerous, and such dynamics tend to not play out well when juxtaposed with human nature.

Re: Licensing is neither feasible nor effective for addressing AI risks

#105

Interesting, but ultimately irrelevant, discussion. AI licensing is just evil megacorp's attempt to strangle the nascent AI industry, because they are quickly losing dominance, and maybe even relevance. Every logical argument you throw falls on deaf ears. Their reasons for pushing licensing are not based on good faith. It was only 6 moths ago that Microsoft invested $10,000,000,000 into OpenAI. At the time, their pro…

They didn’t pay 10B for the model, but for the market potential of the company creating it, and their human capital. I think calling this a bad bet is … premature to say the least.

Re: Licensing is neither feasible nor effective for addressing AI risks

#106

There are too many variants to legislate AI. DeCSS debacle, anyone? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/DeCSS

That's a pleasant thought, but I'm pretty sure that the decision makers have learned from that experience and it won't be repeated.

Re: Licensing is neither feasible nor effective for addressing AI risks

#107
post #2

"If we don't do it, the evil people will do it anyway" is not a good argument. Military applications are a small subset and are unaffected by copyright issues. Applications can be trained in secrecy. The copyright, plagiarism and unemployment issues are entirely disjoint from the national security issues. If North Korea trains a chat bot using material that is prohibited for training by a special license, so what? Th…

I for one, do not want to see this technology locked behind a chosen few corporations, whom have already long since lost my trust and respect. I can almost 100% guarantee, with regulation, you'll see all the same loss of jobs and whatnot, but only the chosen few who are licensed will hold the technology. I'm old enough to have seen the interplay of corporations, the government, and regulatory capture, and see what th…

I, for one, 100% expect that outcome -that it will be locked away "for our own good".

Fill your boots while you can, everyone. The great consolidation is here!

Re: Licensing is neither feasible nor effective for addressing AI risks

#108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It’s insane to me that he of all people is doing all this talking. He has massive conflicts of interest that should be abundantly obvious This might also give evidence that OpenAI has interests that it has not yet publicly talked about. Just some food for thought: which kind of possible interests that OpenAI might have are consistent with Sam Altman's behaviour?

>which kind of possible interests that OpenAI might have are consistent with Sam Altman's behaviour? Securing a government enforced monopoly on large language models?

That’s a long shot at best. It would be much more lucrative to lock up some DOD spend.

Re: Licensing is neither feasible nor effective for addressing AI risks

#109
post #57

To phrase it more succinctly: it's a stupid idea because a 12 year old teenager will be able to train these models on their phone in a few years. This is fundamentally different from enriching Uranium.

>To phrase it more succinctly: it's a stupid idea because a 12 year old teenager will be able to train these models on their phone in a few years.

No -they won't. Legislation will be written which will forbid companies such as github and gitlab to host models or any sort of AI building programs or data.

Think of the ban on cryptography in the 70's up to the 90's, but on steroids (with the very rich in on the ban, and not just the military).

The 12 year old won't build jack nor shit because he won't have the means to get the software to do so. This will be treated like munitions -and back "in the day" even professionals had issues around that (didn't dmr have to explain himself over crypto back in the 70's; or am I misremembering that?)

We -by "we" I mean "consumers"- have maybe 5 years, tops, of unfettered ability to play with generative software of any sort.

Re: Licensing is neither feasible nor effective for addressing AI risks

#110
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The theories all inevitably rely on assumptions that are essentially the equivalence of spherical cows in a frictionless universe. All evidence is that costs for intelligence likely scale superlinearly. Each increase in intelligence capability requires substantially more resources (Computing power, training data, electricity, hardware, time, etc). Being smart doesn’t just directly result in these becoming available w…

The way I see it, it's clear that human-level intelligence can be achieved with hardware that's toaster-sized and consumes 100 watts, as demonstrated by our brains. Obviously there is some minimum requirements and limitations, but they aren't huge, there are no physical or info-theoretical limits that superhuman intelligence must require a megawatt-sized compute cluster and all the data on the internet (which obvious…

Using this logic, flexible, self-healing, marathon running, juggling and childbearing robots that run on the occasional pizza are just around the corner, because, nature.

It might us a thousand years to get anywhere close? I don’t see the good arguments for all of this happening soon.

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