Live data from Hacker News

Licensing is neither feasible nor effective for addressing AI risks

aisnakeoil.substack.com

91–100 of 161 posts

Re: Licensing is neither feasible nor effective for addressing AI risks

#91
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is no evidence that a runaway artificial intelligence is even plausible Really? There is a lot of theory behind why this is likely to happen and if you want a real example there is a similar existing scenario we can look at, which is how humans have gone through an exponential runaway explosion in capabilities in the last few hundred years because of being more intelligent than other species and being able to…

The theories all inevitably rely on assumptions that are essentially the equivalence of spherical cows in a frictionless universe. All evidence is that costs for intelligence likely scale superlinearly. Each increase in intelligence capability requires substantially more resources (Computing power, training data, electricity, hardware, time, etc). Being smart doesn’t just directly result in these becoming available w…

The way I see it, it's clear that human-level intelligence can be achieved with hardware that's toaster-sized and consumes 100 watts, as demonstrated by our brains. Obviously there is some minimum requirements and limitations, but they aren't huge, there are no physical or info-theoretical limits that superhuman intelligence must require a megawatt-sized compute cluster and all the data on the internet (which obviously no human could ever see).

The only reason why currently it takes far, far more computing power is that we have no idea how to build effective intelligence, and we're taking lots of brute force shortcuts because we don't really understand how the emergent capabilities emerge as we just throw a bunch of matrix multiplication at huge data and hope for the best. Now if some artificial agent becomes powerful enough to understand how it works and is capable of improving that (and that's a BIG "if", I'm not saying that it's certain or even likely, but I am asserting that it's possible) then we have to assume that it might be capable of doing superhuman intelligence with a quite modest compute budget - e.g. something that can be rented on the cloud with a million dollars (for example, by getting a donation from a "benefactor" or getting some crypto through a single ransomware extortion case), which is certainly below the level which would draw attention. Perhaps it's unlikely, but it is plausible, and that is dangerous enough to be a risk worth considering even if it's unlikely.

Re: Licensing is neither feasible nor effective for addressing AI risks

#92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Definitely agree. I would summarize it a bit differently, but when people talk about AI dangers they are usually talking about 1 of 4 different things: 1. AI eventually takes control and destroys humans (i.e. the Skynet concern). 2. AI further ingrains already existing societal biases (sexism, racism, etc.) to the detriment of things like fair employment, fair judicial proceedings, etc. 3. AI makes large swaths of hu…

#1 has high focus more due to impact than high probability. #2 doesn't seem talked about much at this point and seems to be pivoting more to #3. #2 never had much of a compelling argument given auditability. #3 gets mainly ignored due to Luddite assumptions driving it. I'm dubious myself over the short term - humans will have absolute advantage in many fields for a long time (especially with robotics lagging and bein…

> I'm dubious myself over the short term - humans will have absolute advantage in many fields for a long time

AI doesn’t have to be better at the humans’ job to unemploy them. It’s enough that its output looks presentable enough for advertising most of the time, that it never asks for a day off, never gets sick or retires, never refuses orders, never joins a union…

The capitalist doesn’t really care about having the best product to sell, they only care about having the lowest-cost product they can get away with selling.

Re: Licensing is neither feasible nor effective for addressing AI risks

#93
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google and others had similar products which were never released. No wonder why. There are literally billions of people that can be empowered by these tools. Imagine what will result when the tens of thousands of “one in a million” intellects are given access to knowledge that only the richest people have had. Rich incumbents have reason to be worried. The dangers of tools like these are overblown. It was already pos…

Google probably held back because a good searchbot cannibalizes their search (which is constantly getting worse and worse for years now..)

I often used google to search for technical things from documentation sites - and what I've found out is that ChatGPT provides better answers than the official documentation for most tools. So it's not about a searchbot doing better search for the sources, it's about a "knowledgebot" providing a summary of knowledge that is better than the original sources.

Re: Licensing is neither feasible nor effective for addressing AI risks

#94
post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you get all the other large nation states/blocs on board with this?

There’s only one competitive GPU company in town. Ids actually supremely easy to enforce it for any of 3 governments in the world. US, TW, CN

What about all those GPUs they've already made?

Re: Licensing is neither feasible nor effective for addressing AI risks

#96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that something has been covered in sci-fi doesn’t mean that it can’t happen. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_the_stone “Speaker A: Infectious diseases are caused by tiny organisms that are not visible to unaided eyesight. Speaker B: Your statement is false. Speaker A: Why do you think that it is false? Speaker B: It sounds like nonsense. Speaker B denies Speaker A's claim without providing evidence…

The burden of proof is on the person making the initial claim and i highly doubt that the reasoning behind AI ruin is as extensive and compelling as the germ theory of disease. We assume human-level general AI is possible because we exist in nature but a super-human self-optimizing AI god is nowhere to be found.

Which claim does the burden of proof land on? That an artificial super intelligence can easily be controlled or that it cannot? And what is your rational for deciding?

Re: Licensing is neither feasible nor effective for addressing AI risks

#97
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

but in the future it probably won’t be I see this parroted so often, and I have to ask: Why? What is there outside of the world of SciFi that makes the AGI of the future so nebulous, when humans would have presumably advanced to a point to be able to create the intelligence to begin with. Emergent properties are often as unexpected as they are bizarre, but they are not unexplainable, especially when you understand th…

We can’t even fully explain how our own brains work, never mind a system that’s completely alien to us and that would have to be more complex. We can’t even explain how current LLMs work internally. Maybe we’ll make some breakthrough if we put enough resources into it but if people keep denying the problem there will never be enough resources out into it

While I agree with the other comment, I'd like to add one thing to help you see the false equivalency being made here: we didn't make the human brain.

Now, with that being understood, why wouldn't we understand a brain that we made? Don't say "emergent properties", because we understand the ermegent properties of ant colonies without having made them.

Re: Licensing is neither feasible nor effective for addressing AI risks

#99
post #98

Oh but it is; they can demand hardware based filters and restrictions. “Hardware will filter these vectors from models and block them from frame buffer, audio, etc, or require opt in royalty payments to view them.”

This is an interesting idea but is it feasible? What does “filter these vectors” mean? In the context of deep models are we talking about embedding specific models, weights, parameters, etc at some point in memory with the hardware? Are we taking about filtering input generally and globally (on a general purpose system)?

Re: Licensing is neither feasible nor effective for addressing AI risks

#100
post #20

Any laws should be legislating the downstream effects of AI, not the models themselves. Otherwise we will quickly get to a place where we have a handful of government-sanctioned and white-washed “safe” models responsible for deleterious effects on society, with plausible deniability for the companies abusing them. Legislating around the model is missing the point. There is no evidence that a runaway artificial intell…

> There is no evidence that a runaway artificial intelligence is even plausible Really? There is a lot of theory behind why this is likely to happen and if you want a real example there is a similar existing scenario we can look at, which is how humans have gone through an exponential runaway explosion in capabilities in the last few hundred years because of being more intelligent than other species and being able to…

Is there really “a lot of theory” that says runaway AI is possible? In the sense of empirical fact-based peer reviewed machine learning literature?

Because if so I must have missed it.

It seems more accurate to say there is quite a bit of writing done by vocal influencers who frequent a couple online forums.

Post reply on HN