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New York City will charge drivers going downtown

cnn.com

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Re: New York City will charge drivers going downtown

#261

Post by jasonpbecker »

bilalq wrote: post #200
superseeplus wrote: post #172

A big proportion of the opposition is coming from New Jersey where former Governor Chris Christie systematically diverted public transit funding to constructing more roads leaving NJ Transit with a maintenance backlog, inadequate infrastructure and unhappy workers who were poached by the MTA. This resulted in a mismatch where the infrastructure is designed to favor driving on one side of the river and a fee designed…

There's more reason for NJ residents to take issue with this. In central jersey, it costs at least $20/person for a round trip ticket. If you go with your family or a group of friends filling a 5 seat car, the train costs $100 just to get into the city and then get hit with whatever additional costs you have for the next few subway rides. Gas, parking, and carpool bridge/tunnel toll prices don't add up to anywhere ne…

Managing to leave out parking costs, which could easily be $50 in a garage is very convenient.

Also, I'd eat my shoe if more than 5% of cars entering Manhattan had 5 people in them. I'd guess the number is sub 0.5%.

Re: New York City will charge drivers going downtown

#262

Post by kevin_thibedeau »

Jolter wrote: post #247
kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The opposition from NJ is the double dipping of already high bridge and tunnel tolls along with the new congestion toll. They also have a really meager fixed discount for motorcycles which has diminished in value as the tolls have risen over the years.

Why should motorcycles have a discount? How big should it be in your opinion, and why?

For motorcycles, London gives 100% off the congestion charge. The NY thruway is half off but PANYNJ tolls are just $1 off.

Re: New York City will charge drivers going downtown

#263

Post by dotnet00 »

ricktdotorg wrote: post #199
dotnet00 wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Describing the NYC subway as "working great" is an amazing twisting of the truth. The only thing good about it is that it isn't as bad as public transport in Long Island. Otherwise, good luck going anywhere on time without having to add 30 minutes - an hour of waste just standing around. The discomfort and cost of public transportation would be at least somewhat tolerable if there was anywhere near as much of an emph…

> Describing the NYC subway as "working great" is an amazing twisting of the truth. The only thing good about it is that it isn't as bad as public transport in Long Island. Otherwise, good luck going anywhere on time without having to add 30 minutes - an hour of waste just standing around. just to add some real numbers, we can look at the actual NYC subway data from MTA's march 2023 report[0] page 12: * ~3.7m subway…

I highly doubt the accuracy of that, the ~one time per month during weekends that I have to travel to the city, the subway and busses were so unreliable with timing that it's easier to just take the LIRR to the nearest place to my destination, ignore the busses and walk the remaining miles.

Re: New York City will charge drivers going downtown

#264

Post by woodruffw »

bilalq wrote: post #200
superseeplus wrote: post #172

A big proportion of the opposition is coming from New Jersey where former Governor Chris Christie systematically diverted public transit funding to constructing more roads leaving NJ Transit with a maintenance backlog, inadequate infrastructure and unhappy workers who were poached by the MTA. This resulted in a mismatch where the infrastructure is designed to favor driving on one side of the river and a fee designed…

There's more reason for NJ residents to take issue with this. In central jersey, it costs at least $20/person for a round trip ticket. If you go with your family or a group of friends filling a 5 seat car, the train costs $100 just to get into the city and then get hit with whatever additional costs you have for the next few subway rides. Gas, parking, and carpool bridge/tunnel toll prices don't add up to anywhere ne…

In addition to what others have said: everything you've said is a reason to lower end-user public transit costs, not lower car tolls. A well-structured scheme here would simultaneously disincentivize individual car traffic and use some of the funds from that disincentivization to subsidize public transit.

Re: New York City will charge drivers going downtown

#265

Post by kelnos »

cyberax wrote: post #107
zip1234 wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For sure, let's charge methods of transportation based on negative externalities such as how much space they take, safety, and noise/particulate pollution.

I'm all for it! It would suck for transit, though: 1. It has a higher CO2 footprint than small/medium EVs. 2. Transit forces people into smaller and denser housing, resulting in suboptimal living conditions. 3. Buses in particular result in excessive road wear&tear. It's really amazing that people say things like "car owners should not get subsidized" (by whom?), while talking about transit that is literally infeasib…

Car owners are already hugely subsidized. Toll roads cover only a tiny fraction of road maintenance. The rest is paid by taxpayers, even those who do not drive.

Re: New York City will charge drivers going downtown

#266

Post by insanitybit »

jimbob45 wrote: post #207
superseeplus wrote: post #172

A big proportion of the opposition is coming from New Jersey where former Governor Chris Christie systematically diverted public transit funding to constructing more roads leaving NJ Transit with a maintenance backlog, inadequate infrastructure and unhappy workers who were poached by the MTA. This resulted in a mismatch where the infrastructure is designed to favor driving on one side of the river and a fee designed…

[flagged]

> Nobody was talking about Christie at all for years

I've been hearing about Christie for absolute ages, no clue at all what you're on about.

Re: New York City will charge drivers going downtown

#267

Post by NovemberWhiskey »

Living in the part of Manhattan that's covered by this, I'm absolutely looking forward to paying $17 to drive a quarter-mile to the FDR early on a Sunday morning /s.

The thing that's interesting is that the average vehicle on the roads in lower Manhattan (in my experience) is not a luxury car. It's a taxi or a ride share or a delivery truck (or other commercial vehicle: contractors etc) or what is essentially an economy or mid-tier private vehicle.

EDIT: not a popular observation apparently.

Re: New York City will charge drivers going downtown

#268

Post by superseeplus »

cyberax wrote: post #87
Tinyyy wrote: post #11

I’m a fan of charging market efficient rates for shared goods. The congestion situation in the Holland Tunnel is awful and bleeds out into various streets of Manhattan as well. The cost of sitting in crawling traffic with aggressive drivers cutting around is probably much more than an extra $20.

> I’m a fan of charging market efficient rates for shared goods. Are you a fan of charging market rates for transit as well?

To be fair, that is how commuter trains in the NYC metropolitan area work. The fares are higher during rush hour to discourage people who can shift their schedule from traveling during rush hour.

Re: New York City will charge drivers going downtown

#269

Post by HWR_14 »

jimbob45 wrote: post #207
superseeplus wrote: post #172

A big proportion of the opposition is coming from New Jersey where former Governor Chris Christie systematically diverted public transit funding to constructing more roads leaving NJ Transit with a maintenance backlog, inadequate infrastructure and unhappy workers who were poached by the MTA. This resulted in a mismatch where the infrastructure is designed to favor driving on one side of the river and a fee designed…

[flagged]

You are being paranoid.

If nobody was talking about Christie, it's because 95% of what he did only impacted NJ. This is a spillover, because it happens to be related to a megacity doing something for the first time in North America.

But, beyond that, when people start running for president, people start talking about them. Criticisms or not. No one talked about Joe Biden doing anything from the start of the 2016 election until he announced in 2020, in spite of having been a major political player for decades.

Re: New York City will charge drivers going downtown

#270

Post by woodruffw »

jimbob45 wrote: post #207
superseeplus wrote: post #172

A big proportion of the opposition is coming from New Jersey where former Governor Chris Christie systematically diverted public transit funding to constructing more roads leaving NJ Transit with a maintenance backlog, inadequate infrastructure and unhappy workers who were poached by the MTA. This resulted in a mismatch where the infrastructure is designed to favor driving on one side of the river and a fee designed…

[flagged]

Christie's buffoonery around transit[1] is a somewhat staid topic in NYC politics, and this is an article about NYC.

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fort_Lee_lane_closure_scandal

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