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Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

theregister.com

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Re: Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

#211

Post by belter »

rlupi wrote: post #197
belter wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now imagine it trying to manage a Dutch Roundabout - https://youtu.be/41XBzAOmmIU or driving in a city like OPorto - https://youtu.be/VIWikUUl5YQ

Or Naples https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCE1aUkeMe0

Well I was trying to still give a chance to FSD, but as you are raising the stakes...Let's agree to have Marrakech as the baseline - https://youtu.be/SsZlduEIyPQ

And we can also test it in Ho Chi Minh. Tesla says it has superhuman abilities... - https://youtu.be/1ZupwFOhjl4

Re: Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

#212

Post by justapassenger »

fallingknife wrote: post #183
justapassenger wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, let’s focus on the technical aspects. Tesla has no safety life cycle process and as a result FSD is inherently unsafe, from the engineering point of view. You can try to hand wave over that, but if you are an engineer working on the safety critical systems (it’s an actual engineering field), that’s all you need to know about FSD.

You are not actually focusing on technical aspects. You are focusing on regulatory credentials and bureaucratic process. Focusing on technical aspects would mean looking at actual data from on road performance.

Design process and lifecycle of the product and development is not a technical aspect only at startups building apps to share cat photos.

Re: Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

#213

Post by jchoca »

prmoustache wrote: post #192
notyourwork wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I were Tesla why would I take responsibility for something no one is forcing me to take responsibility for? Lawmakers are responsible for this charade and its embarrassing to me that a company can be so misleading with marketing and get away with it.

I wouldn't do any business with you for example if that is your default level of ethics.

You say that, but it’s how most companies operate unfortunately.

Re: Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

#214

Post by Vespasian »

jupp0r wrote: post #153
kbos87 wrote: post #151

What exactly do people think it means when Mercedes says they will “take liability”? Decisions about whether to prosecute a driver when something bad happens are local and state level decisions. Mercedes can’t protect you when a local prosecutor decides to say “yeah level 3, whatever, you were behind the wheel.”

I assume they can only take over civil, not criminal liability.

As another user posted at least in Germany the laws were changed to account for this.

Re: Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

#215

Post by yread »

berkes wrote: post #199
Longhanks wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have a train station in front of your house and any target destination you can imagine wanting to go to? Because most people don't.

Yes. And yes. I live in the Netherlands and we have this. Because it is what people want and need. And because it's been invested in for decades. And because it has a way higher ROI than car infra.

Well the road infra has also been invested in heavily. Dutch highways are the best

Re: Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

#216

Post by rdlw »

jeremyjh wrote: post #190
justapassenger wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ask Boeing how ignoring it works out.

Which Boeing execs ended their career in disgrace after killing hundreds of people in pursuit of lower training costs ?

Dennis Muilenburg.

189 people: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lion_Air_Flight_610

157 people: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethiopian_Airlines_Flight_30...

That's 346 people killed.

Here's an article about his being fired in disgrace after this: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/23/business/Boeing-ceo-muile...

Re: Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

#217

Post by illumin8 »

toast0 wrote: post #184
jondwillis wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

LA has an unwritten law where 2-3 cars make unprotected lefts after oncoming traffic has cleared on yellow/red lights. Letting FSD drive, it can’t honor this “cultural” (technically illegal) behavior. If I am operating it, off goes FSD in that moment.

Dude it's totally following the law. You're allowed to enter the intersection for an unprotected left even if it's not clear to turn (possibly not if the end of the intersection you're going to is full of cars). If you are in the intersection, you're allowed to clear when possible regardless of the color of your light. Most intersections with unprotected left turns let you fit at least a whole car, sometimes two in t…

Correct. The law states that as long as your front wheels are in the intersection prior to the light turning red, you should proceed through the intersection. Inexperienced drivers that either stay in the intersection or try to reverse into traffic behind them are breaking the law and create a huge hazard for others.

Even if the light for opposing traffic turns green while the turning car is still clearing the intersection, opposing traffic is legally required to wait and not enter the intersection until opposing traffic has cleared the intersection.

Re: Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

#218

Post by iknowstuff »

KennyBlanken wrote: post #186
belter wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Took me less than a few minutes, to find in the same channel, FSD failing and the human having to intervene. Here it is at the proper time and for a video uploaded 10 hours ago... - https://youtu.be/KG4yABOlNjk?t=995 And even worst failures...looking at all these I simply do not believe the videos posted are not edited or a selection of a success out of many failed ones. https://youtu.be/KG4yABOlNjk?t=1252 https://yo…

Tesla not only isn't putting their money where their mouth is, they have a lond-standing history of using illegal DMCA takedowns to remove these sorts of videos from Twitter, reddit, Facebook, etc.

Incorrect

Re: Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

#219

Post by dkjaudyeqooe »

thegrim33 wrote: post #194
hristov wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even considering its heavy limitations, the Mercedes system is miles better than the Tesla, because it is actually useful. You can actually turn on the system and do your email, or take a nap. Yes, the 40 mph limitation on highways seems to make it useless, but many highways get congested to the point where you are not going over 40 mph anyways, and those are the times when it is most frustrating to drive. And regard…

"do your email, or take a nap" <- The definition of an SAE Level 3 system is that you must remain in the seat, prepared to take control immediately when the system requests you to. Taking a nap or otherwise not paying attention is not what such a system supports.

> prepared to take control immediately

I don't think that's correct. I've seen "in a certain amount of time" but you make it sound like it's a safety issue, which it's not, that being a key differentiation from a L2 system. When it can't drive it stops driving and you have to drive. If it's not a safety issue you could conceivably bee sleeping, as long as you can wake up in a timely manner.

The SAE makes it clear that the car is driving at L3, and on that basis you would expect the transition to another driver would be graceful, just like with two human drivers.

Re: Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

#220

Post by pavlov »

gzer0 wrote: post #43

Friendly reminder that this system is HEAVILY limited, with the following restrictions: - Must be under 40 mph - Only during the daylight and only on certain highways - CANNOT be operated on city/country streets - CANNOT be operated in construction zones - CANNOT be during heavy rain or fog or flood roads And for comparison: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjZSZTKYEU4 Tesla FSD navigating the complex city streets of…

I have a Model 3 in Europe with the so-called FSD, and it’s mostly terrible. I regret paying for it. The car often doesn’t understand even speed limit signs, so it fails at the bare minimum of safety.

Recently I visited LA and a friend gave me a drive in their Model 3. The difference in sensor interpretation quality was massive compared to what I see back home. That gave me hope of my aging Model 3 still seeing improvements… But also a nagging suspicion that Tesla may have spent a lot of manual effort on data labeling and heuristics for LA roads specifically, and the results may not be easily scalable elsewhere.

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