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Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

theregister.com

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Re: Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

#171

Post by kelnos »

zaroth wrote: post #58
throwaway_ab wrote: post #31

Many people are saying Tesla FSD is far more advanced, and I've seen videos of A Tesla driving around LA for 2 hours completely autonomously so I agree Tesla FSD is the world leader by far and blows what Mercedes has built out of the water. However Mercedes are taking liability whilst their system is in use which implies Tesla takes no liability whilst their system is in use. I'm surprised Tesla is scared to take leg…

Mercedes could also ship their own L2 AutoPilot without having to take legal responsibility. Their customers would love it as much as Tesla drivers love theirs. The thing is, they just aren’t capable of it.

Huh? The L2 system on my 2022 Mercedes works just fine. And I'm sure that's not the first model year where it was present.

Re: Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

#172

Post by DanielVZ »

Spivak wrote: post #115
barbariangrunge wrote: post #49

We’ve actually had nearly self driving vehicles for over a century. They’re called trains. We should invest in some. The navigation problem gets way easier

Driverless trains are actually a pretty new thing, being on tracks is not as set/forget as people assume. If you mean "transportation where I'm not driving" then sure but taxis also fit that bill.

Subway trains have been able to be autonomous since at least a decade.

Re: Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

#173

Post by belter »

kbos87 wrote: post #151

What exactly do people think it means when Mercedes says they will “take liability”? Decisions about whether to prosecute a driver when something bad happens are local and state level decisions. Mercedes can’t protect you when a local prosecutor decides to say “yeah level 3, whatever, you were behind the wheel.”

That was handled in Germany by changing existing laws. I would imagine equivalent laws were made or are being prepared for California and Nevada.

"Germany will be the world leader in autonomous driving" - https://bmdv.bund.de/SharedDocs/EN/Articles/DG/act-on-autono...

"...The Autonomous Driving Act took effect in Germany on July 28, 2021, introducing significant and comprehensive amendments to the German Road Traffic Law..." - https://www.ippi.org.il/germany-autonomous-driving-act/

Law here (German): https://bmdv.bund.de/SharedDocs/DE/Anlage/Gesetze/Gesetze-19...

Re: Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

#174

Post by spockz »

dclowd9901 wrote: post #160
gzer0 wrote: post #43

Friendly reminder that this system is HEAVILY limited, with the following restrictions: - Must be under 40 mph - Only during the daylight and only on certain highways - CANNOT be operated on city/country streets - CANNOT be operated in construction zones - CANNOT be during heavy rain or fog or flood roads And for comparison: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjZSZTKYEU4 Tesla FSD navigating the complex city streets of…

I’m curious what streets are under 40 mph and not “city” or “country” streets?

Congested highways?

Re: Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

#175

Post by kelnos »

ajross wrote: post #23
belter wrote: post #6

"Conditionally automated driving: Mercedes-Benz DRIVE PILOT further expands U.S. availability to the country’s" - https://media.mercedes-benz.com/article/81a29ac5-4d02-4b58-b... ”Mercedes-Benz DRIVE PILOT is the world's only SAE Level 3 system with internationally valid type approval. It builds on a very robust foundation, setting new industry standards. DRIVE PILOT uses a highly sophisticated vehicle architecture ba…

It's also worth pointing out that this is an extremely limited system: > On suitable freeway sections and where there is high traffic density, DRIVE PILOT can offer to take over the dynamic driving task, up to speeds of 40 mph. Basically, this will follow the car in front of you in slow freeway traffic. It won't navigate, it won't even change lanes. It won't work (and it's not clear to me how it disengages) when traf…

The interesting thing is it's roughly the same system my 2022 Mercedes has, except it requires my hands on the wheel (and does not disengage over 40mph). I mean, this is just adaptive cruise with lane keeping.

Really the big thing here is Mercedes is saying it's good enough (under 40mph) that the driver doesn't have to pay attention at all.

Re: Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

#176

Post by PartiallyTyped »

Longhanks wrote: post #149
barbariangrunge wrote: post #49

We’ve actually had nearly self driving vehicles for over a century. They’re called trains. We should invest in some. The navigation problem gets way easier

Do you have a train station in front of your house and any target destination you can imagine wanting to go to? Because most people don't.

Maybe if we built more of those, more people would be within walking distance of them.

Re: Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

#178

Post by kelnos »

oblio wrote: post #4
porphyra wrote: post #3

... only when driving under 40 mph on highways. So it is pretty useless. The main thing is that Mercedes Benz will take liability for anything that goes wrong. But the system as a whole is far less capable than Tesla FSD.

> The main thing is that Mercedes Benz will take liability for anything that goes wrong. But the system as a whole is far less capable than Tesla FSD. "It's less capable except for the minor fact that if we > someone, it's >". You know, that minor factor called "life or death". > ... only when driving under 40 mph on highways. So it is pretty useless. If Waymo/Tesla/whatever would do this, they'd be the darlings of t…

If the local DA decides to prosecute you after your car kills someone, there is nothing Mercedes can do for you. This liability they are assuming must be civil only.

Re: Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

#179

Post by andylynch »

barbariangrunge wrote: post #49

We’ve actually had nearly self driving vehicles for over a century. They’re called trains. We should invest in some. The navigation problem gets way easier

Most trains are far from self driving; training to operate one is easily 6-12 months work, depending on the line, with strict licensing as well.

Re: Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

#180

Post by ajross »

piotrkaminski wrote: post #170
ajross wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, where do you get "accept liability" from "ability to respond to a judgement for damages"? That's not a requirement to pay, that just requires that the company have the ability to pay if they are found liable! It's the corporate equivalent of requiring liability insurance. Show me the contract (or hell, even a press release) where Mercedes acknowledged accepting liability in the US. I really don't think this ha…

There were a ton of articles around 2022-03-20 (e.g., [1]) that had a line like this: > Once you engage Drive Pilot, you are no longer legally liable for the car's operation until it disengages. Not quite a press release but given that Mercedes never denied the claims it's pretty close. It'll be interesting to see how this is implemented legally, of course. [1] https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a39481699/what-happens…

That was a German product though. The press release about the american rollout is notably missing that language.
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