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Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

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Re: Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

#141

Post by avereveard »

wilg wrote: post #131
belter wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Tesla Again Paints A Crash Data Story That Misleads Many Readers" - https://www.forbes.com/sites/bradtempleton/2023/04/26/tesla-... "...Several attempts have been made to reach out to Tesla for comment over the years since these numbers first started coming out, however, Tesla closed its press relations office and no longer responds to press inquiries..."

This critique of their impact report (I was referring to a more recent statement) only goes as far as saying FSD beta is equally safe to humans driving, not worse, which seems perfectly acceptable?

Depends on the average of human driver. Especially if the average includes motorbikes.

Saying fsd on tela has the same statistic than the general driver population prints a grim picture, as it puts it in a strictly worse performance than peers vehicles (SUV or saloons depending on the model)

Re: Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

#142

Post by [deleted] »

gzer0 wrote: post #43

Friendly reminder that this system is HEAVILY limited, with the following restrictions: - Must be under 40 mph - Only during the daylight and only on certain highways - CANNOT be operated on city/country streets - CANNOT be operated in construction zones - CANNOT be during heavy rain or fog or flood roads And for comparison: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjZSZTKYEU4 Tesla FSD navigating the complex city streets of…

[deleted]

Re: Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

#144

Post by ra7 »

ajross wrote: post #57
throwaway_ab wrote: post #31

Many people are saying Tesla FSD is far more advanced, and I've seen videos of A Tesla driving around LA for 2 hours completely autonomously so I agree Tesla FSD is the world leader by far and blows what Mercedes has built out of the water. However Mercedes are taking liability whilst their system is in use which implies Tesla takes no liability whilst their system is in use. I'm surprised Tesla is scared to take leg…

> However Mercedes are taking liability whilst their system is in use Are they? This press release doesn't actually say so. There was an announcement a while back when they deployed this system in Germany, but that's obviously a different legal environment. FWIW, this is mostly spin anyway. Liability isn't generally something that is granted, it's either there or not. If Tesla FSD causes an accident, they can absolut…

> Liability isn't generally something that is granted, it's either there or not. If Tesla FSD causes an accident, they can absolutely be sued for that in the US.

That’s not what liability means here. Assuming the story is true, it means Mercedes is responsible for damages caused when the system is engaged and the users know that when they buy the car. Being sued afterwards is not the same thing.

> The reason that "Tesla is liable for accidents" doesn't make news is... that there are vanishingly few AP/FSD accidents.

Or because Tesla actively hides accident data by using suspect methodology and not following regulations about disclosure.

Just a couple of days ago there was a user report of FSD hitting and killing a dog: https://twitter.com/TeslaUberRide/status/1666860361381818384...

Unsurprisingly, it won’t show up in any of the stats Tesla publishes in their two-paragraph “safety report”. That’s because they don’t consider any contact that doesn’t deploy airbags to be an accident. There are plenty of reports like this that are not being counted.

Not to mention, Tesla is openly violating at least CA DMV regulations that require reporting of all disengagements and contact events.

Re: Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

#145

Post by rvnx »

gzer0 wrote: post #43

Friendly reminder that this system is HEAVILY limited, with the following restrictions: - Must be under 40 mph - Only during the daylight and only on certain highways - CANNOT be operated on city/country streets - CANNOT be operated in construction zones - CANNOT be during heavy rain or fog or flood roads And for comparison: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjZSZTKYEU4 Tesla FSD navigating the complex city streets of…

It's very different goals, the Tesla approach is more of a hack, which is to release things, without any liability or guarantee "we quickly hacked this together, good luck, if you die or get injured this is your problem!", and Mercedes is delivering a product that only support a few features but do it well, and they put their responsibility on it.

Re: Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

#146

Post by HDThoreaun »

porphyra wrote: post #3

... only when driving under 40 mph on highways. So it is pretty useless. The main thing is that Mercedes Benz will take liability for anything that goes wrong. But the system as a whole is far less capable than Tesla FSD.

People spend years of their life going under 40 on the highway in LA. This seems huge in socal.

Re: Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

#147

Post by LeoPanthera »

jondwillis wrote: post #128
belter wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Took me less than a few minutes, to find in the same channel, FSD failing and the human having to intervene. Here it is at the proper time and for a video uploaded 10 hours ago... - https://youtu.be/KG4yABOlNjk?t=995 And even worst failures...looking at all these I simply do not believe the videos posted are not edited or a selection of a success out of many failed ones. https://youtu.be/KG4yABOlNjk?t=1252 https://yo…

Anecdotally, in LA, I turn off FSD basically every minute while trying to use it, due to it doing something slightly “inhuman” or not ideal/too to the letter of the law, signaling incorrectly while staying in a lane that curves slightly, etc. I can’t imagine letting it go for a full hour without causing some road rage or traffic blockage. To be clear there is a definite driving “culture” in LA that is very permissive…

> signaling incorrectly while staying in a lane that curves slightly

This is super annoying, but the most recent FSD update seems to have mostly fixed that.

It's still pretty crappy in a lot of other ways, but at least that improved.

Re: Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

#148

Post by kbos87 »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #138
simondotau wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How exactly is Mercedes accepting liability? I mean to say, how does this work in practice? Who absorbs the demerit points if your car is accused of going 40 in a 30 zone?

> How exactly is Mercedes accepting liability? You’re indemnified.

Mercedes can’t indemnify you. Local police and prosecutors make those decisions.

Re: Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

#149

Post by Longhanks »

barbariangrunge wrote: post #49

We’ve actually had nearly self driving vehicles for over a century. They’re called trains. We should invest in some. The navigation problem gets way easier

Do you have a train station in front of your house and any target destination you can imagine wanting to go to? Because most people don't.

Re: Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

#150

Post by adsfgiodsnrio »

gzer0 wrote: post #43

Friendly reminder that this system is HEAVILY limited, with the following restrictions: - Must be under 40 mph - Only during the daylight and only on certain highways - CANNOT be operated on city/country streets - CANNOT be operated in construction zones - CANNOT be during heavy rain or fog or flood roads And for comparison: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjZSZTKYEU4 Tesla FSD navigating the complex city streets of…

So, in the absolute best-case scenario cherry-picked from thousands of videos, Tesla's system is capable of going twenty-five miles without making dangerous mistakes.

I agree the comparison is laughable.

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