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French tax officials use AI to spot 20k undeclared pools (2022)

theguardian.com

121–130 of 174 posts

Re: French tax officials use AI to spot 20k undeclared pools (2022)

#121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why shouldn't crimes perpetrated by lower and middle class be persecuted? The rich already pay a disproportionately large amount of taxes and then society excuses lower and middle class persons from paying their small share of taxes.

why do you think the rich pay a "disproportionately" large amount of taxes

https://www.heritage.org/taxes/commentary/1-chart-how-much-t...

Rich is measured by income in the US because the federal gov can only tax income. Wealth taxes are thankfully unconstitutional.

Re: French tax officials use AI to spot 20k undeclared pools (2022)

#122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why shouldn't crimes perpetrated by lower and middle class be persecuted? The rich already pay a disproportionately large amount of taxes and then society excuses lower and middle class persons from paying their small share of taxes.

> The rich already pay a disproportionately large amount of taxes INCOME taxes. Which is NOT the same as WEALTH. If you're going to talk about "the rich" then you need to differentiate between the wealthy ownership class (the people who own things like the debt for our 20 trillion dollar illegal wars, or your mortgage), and the software engineers and doctors who get spooked by any talk of raising taxes. This guy expl…

In the US a wealth tax is unconstitutional at the federal level. So we can only measure disproportionate income taxes by using income as a qualifier for rich.

https://www.heritage.org/taxes/commentary/1-chart-how-much-t...

Re: French tax officials use AI to spot 20k undeclared pools (2022)

#123

Imagine an AI that instead finds potential infrastructure problems riddled across the country. Buildings, bridges, roads, you name it. Then the AI priorities them into a queue and generates cost/resource estimates for repairs. Thereby helping the government improve the livelihood of its constituents! Or wait, imagine if the AI were finding all the rivers and lakes that corporations are dumping trash, chemicals, and o…

These are all things the state used to do without AI - people did it perfectly well. Regrettably it isn't a matter of technology that prevents this sort of thing. It is the hollowing out of the public sphere, the shrinking of state workforces, and the diminishing horizons of what is considered to be 'feasible' - where feasibility is often determined by consultants.

Re: French tax officials use AI to spot 20k undeclared pools (2022)

#124

A big part of the "AI" trend is - be affraid of a big general AI that will destroy humanity like ChatGPT - recognize pools in garden from sat images Actually, if the title was only "French Tax service find 20k hidden taxable swimming pools in France, netting €10M", nobody would care... and it would be fair!!! There is no "Intelligence" in this...

How were they hidden?

Re: French tax officials use AI to spot 20k undeclared pools (2022)

#125

Imagine an AI that instead finds potential infrastructure problems riddled across the country. Buildings, bridges, roads, you name it. Then the AI priorities them into a queue and generates cost/resource estimates for repairs. Thereby helping the government improve the livelihood of its constituents! Or wait, imagine if the AI were finding all the rivers and lakes that corporations are dumping trash, chemicals, and o…

Who is this "they" you're talking about? Lots of people and lots of groups are trying to use AI in different ways. So yes, obviously people are looking into that too.

You seem cynical.

Re: French tax officials use AI to spot 20k undeclared pools (2022)

#126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I bet they are only flagging locations for physical inspection.

That doesn't sound like French government at all. Plus that'd be monumentally impractical for them (have you seen how big France is -and how inaccessible parts of it can be?). The reputation of the tax office is that the tiniest of inconveniences is more than enough to prevent them from doing something. Oh and there's the surprisingly little known fact that French citizens torched most of the cars and half of the gov…

thats what helicopters and drones are for

Re: French tax officials use AI to spot 20k undeclared pools (2022)

#127

Imagine an AI that instead finds potential infrastructure problems riddled across the country. Buildings, bridges, roads, you name it. Then the AI priorities them into a queue and generates cost/resource estimates for repairs. Thereby helping the government improve the livelihood of its constituents! Or wait, imagine if the AI were finding all the rivers and lakes that corporations are dumping trash, chemicals, and o…

> Imagine an AI that instead finds potential infrastructure problems riddled across the country.

Well you need tax payer money to finance the AI that find potential infrastructure problems... So an AI that find tax avoiders might bring more tax payer money to fix other problems.

Re: French tax officials use AI to spot 20k undeclared pools (2022)

#128

Imagine an AI that instead finds potential infrastructure problems riddled across the country. Buildings, bridges, roads, you name it. Then the AI priorities them into a queue and generates cost/resource estimates for repairs. Thereby helping the government improve the livelihood of its constituents! Or wait, imagine if the AI were finding all the rivers and lakes that corporations are dumping trash, chemicals, and o…

Imagine an AI that instead can find corrupt politicians, judges, and business men! That would be something!

Re: French tax officials use AI to spot 20k undeclared pools (2022)

#129
I've said for years the main use case for AI is to dilute and launder accountability so that decisions can be seen as the expression of corporate entities and committees where no individual can be held responsible or accountable. AI is to bureaucracy what cryptocurrency is money laundering.

Over a decade ago I was hired to do a privacy impact assessment for a government project that was going to "use AI to detect benefits fraud." Turned out under the architecture docs, the "AI" was a data repository managed by one of the big credit reporting companies, and their "AI" would flag back individuals to the govt benefits agency for further scrutiny. The company got to keep the data, there was no anonymization or de-identification, let alone any consideration of how the company would use the data after, or for re-linking the data to other data sets to make credit decisions about household members and other relations. The fact that the government was outsourcing their fraud detection to the very credit reporting and collection agencies who would be exploiting the data for credit decisions was also what nobody was supposed to say out loud or write down.

The point is, so-called AI in this case was used as a proxy to hide a relationship between the government and a private company and as a way to absolve either of any accountability for marking someone as a suspect for benefits fraud. The govt didn't have to make or document a regulation mandating them to do fishing expeditions, or create a paper trail on how random their selection of someone was for scrutiny, nor did they have to disclose that their AI system was just the sleazy credit reporting company pretending to be an "AI."

The problem with proxying decisions through so-called AI is that the bureaucracy only exists by its direct mandates, and the people in it are always trying to get around the constraints that imposes, so in these cases, AI is just a false-pretext generation machine. That any agency can act using "randomness," in any situation at all is a level of discretion that is very likely to be inconsistent with their actual mandates, imo.

Re: French tax officials use AI to spot 20k undeclared pools (2022)

#130
post #125

Imagine an AI that instead finds potential infrastructure problems riddled across the country. Buildings, bridges, roads, you name it. Then the AI priorities them into a queue and generates cost/resource estimates for repairs. Thereby helping the government improve the livelihood of its constituents! Or wait, imagine if the AI were finding all the rivers and lakes that corporations are dumping trash, chemicals, and o…

Who is this "they" you're talking about? Lots of people and lots of groups are trying to use AI in different ways. So yes, obviously people are looking into that too. You seem cynical.

Not OP, but let me try: career bureaucrats and democratically elected officials.
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