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Bad waitress: Dying on your feet

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Re: Bad waitress: Dying on your feet

#81

Post by tomcam »

projektfu wrote: post #27
cafard wrote: post #2

I don't know. I never graduated to waiter, but I worked as a busboy a few times. I have much sympathy for wait staff. My recollection is that the waitresses were always decent to me. Still I don't buy, "I suspect it’s easier to teach a waitress to be a writer than an intellectual to be a waiter." One of my other low-paying jobs was as a copy editor, and I have seen how commonly schools have failed to teach PhDs to be…

I'm not sure that schools teach the PhD track to be writers. They must write, but they are not really expected to write well. An MFA in creative writing, sure, but that's a different sort. I think of the modern or contemporary "intellectuals" I have read and many are mediocre writers. For every William James there's a Pearse or a Lewis who is hard to read. But I think that the author has a different idea in mind, tha…

> I'm not sure that schools teach the PhD track to be writers.

In my experience many PhD candidates are required to write in turgid and stilted prose b/c it sounds more professional.

Re: Bad waitress: Dying on your feet

#82

Post by devjab »

cafard wrote: post #2

I don't know. I never graduated to waiter, but I worked as a busboy a few times. I have much sympathy for wait staff. My recollection is that the waitresses were always decent to me. Still I don't buy, "I suspect it’s easier to teach a waitress to be a writer than an intellectual to be a waiter." One of my other low-paying jobs was as a copy editor, and I have seen how commonly schools have failed to teach PhDs to be…

Could you be taking the word "writer" to mean something different than the author? In the context of the article what I got from that line was that it would be easier to teach a waiter to be a food critic/journalist than to teach a food critic/journalist to be a waiter, more than it meant "writer" in the broader sense. I sort of agree with that interpretation. I'm not good with names, but the only names that I can tell you off the top of my head when it comes to food "writers" are: Nikolaj Kirk and Anthony Bourdain and they are both chefs.

Re: Bad waitress: Dying on your feet

#83

Post by quesera »

quesera wrote: post #71
rootsudo wrote: post #66

"I leaned into the idea of serving as an identity. I joined all the Facebook groups, followed #serverlife and server memes on Instagram." I think this is one of the most toxic things in todays society, work becomes your identity and therefore you relate to it and it becomes you, or you settle to what that identity is. You are also surrounded by people in the same role, and depending on that you change to fit in with…

I agree. It's often toxic, but it fills a common need to belong . The need can be healthy (or at least it is common in healthy people). The satisfaction of it can be toxic, and it takes a strong(?)/determined, or at least self-aware , person to escape the local maxima and reach for something approaching real fulfillment. But I may be projecting. I would be dissatisfied if I still lived in the town/state/region I grew…

After edit window, a postscript:

I acknowledge my own display of ignorance and privilege in the preceding!

The freedom to consider those kinds of options -- or even the ability to conceive of them -- is absolutely not available equally to all people or at all times.

Re: Bad waitress: Dying on your feet

#84

Post by ryantgtg »

projektfu wrote: post #27
cafard wrote: post #2

I don't know. I never graduated to waiter, but I worked as a busboy a few times. I have much sympathy for wait staff. My recollection is that the waitresses were always decent to me. Still I don't buy, "I suspect it’s easier to teach a waitress to be a writer than an intellectual to be a waiter." One of my other low-paying jobs was as a copy editor, and I have seen how commonly schools have failed to teach PhDs to be…

I'm not sure that schools teach the PhD track to be writers. They must write, but they are not really expected to write well. An MFA in creative writing, sure, but that's a different sort. I think of the modern or contemporary "intellectuals" I have read and many are mediocre writers. For every William James there's a Pearse or a Lewis who is hard to read. But I think that the author has a different idea in mind, tha…

Not PhD, but the masters program I did (urban planning) had a very strong focus on writing. I’m thankful for that, because it turns out I primarily write and edit all day. And it keeps me in business because I work with engineers and architects whose focus at school was, understandably, not writing, and I prove my worth by editing their work.

Re: Bad waitress: Dying on your feet

#85

Post by quacked »

quickthrower2 wrote: post #43
Scubabear68 wrote: post #8

I gave up on this article about 1/3 of the way through. I could fill dozens of pages with my aimless years after I quit college, but I wouldn’t think to bore people with it.

I got 10% through. Says more about me, or at least my mood. Clicking a HN link I al not sold on reading so much. But if this article was a book I purchased I would read it over a few days. The writing is good though at a micro level. I think it needs more structure and hooks. Chapters with interesting titles “The positive consequences of lying in my first interview” for example (I am not a writer so sure HN could do…

Kitchen Confidential by Anthony Bourdain is this article, but about a thousand times more interesting. It's on my list of books I recommend to people about to enter the corporate world, even though it's about the life of a drug addict chef.

Re: Bad waitress: Dying on your feet

#86

Post by Buttons840 »

matheusmoreira wrote: post #73
ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #7

That was excellent! > The life of the American worker is inherently undignified This is true, and even goes for highly-paid, high-status gigs. In fact, I think that sometimes, companies consider high pay, a license to humiliate.

It's not the work itself that's undignified, it's having to work . The only way to maintain your dignity is to have enough fuck you money to tell anyone who would strip you of it to fuck off.

Hard disagree. Being able to go pee when you need to, or a checker having a stool to sit on instead of standing still on concrete all day, or having a boss that offers an encouraging word after an insane customer yells at you because the computer isn't working instead of also treating you like the source of the problem. Things like these bring dignity, and would enable people to work while still having dignity.

Re: Bad waitress: Dying on your feet

#87

Post by adamwk »

tomcam wrote: post #79

Author refers 3 times to 20-pound plates of potatoes. Is that really a thing? I’ve eaten at thousands of restaurants and don’t recall anything like that but I’m not the most observant person.

I’ve been to the restaurant in San Diego and the plates are indeed massive

Re: Bad waitress: Dying on your feet

#89

Post by watwut »

omginternets wrote: post #77
lcnPylGDnU4H9OF wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe the point is not that it's easy to teach people to write well but that it's easier than teaching people to work hard.

Every Ph.D I've met has been a very hard worker, on par with the people I worked with in the military.

I never seen PhD as a program that is attempting to teach people write. There is absolutely no reason to expect someone with PhD to write better then other people.

Re: Bad waitress: Dying on your feet

#90

Post by watwut »

waiseristy wrote: post #28
cafard wrote: post #2

I don't know. I never graduated to waiter, but I worked as a busboy a few times. I have much sympathy for wait staff. My recollection is that the waitresses were always decent to me. Still I don't buy, "I suspect it’s easier to teach a waitress to be a writer than an intellectual to be a waiter." One of my other low-paying jobs was as a copy editor, and I have seen how commonly schools have failed to teach PhDs to be…

Lemme modify the writers words for you to more accurately describe the phenomena : “I suspect it’s easier to teach a good waitress to be a writer than an intellectual to be a good waiter.” Being excellent at balancing a stressful, fast paced, work environment applies to many jobs. But being excellent at being an “intellectual” whatever the hell that even means (writers? Programmers?), does not really apply to very ma…

And meanwhile back in real world many intellectuals worked as waiters here and there to get extra money.
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