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The Mao-Kissinger Meeting of 1973

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21–30 of 309 posts

Re: The Mao-Kissinger Meeting of 1973

#21

What's interesting about this?

Are you daft? It's two of the greatest/most-importants minds of the 20th century meeting in the post ww2 era. From the western side - Kissinger is arguably right up there with Machiavelli, his influence is immutable. and Mao sort of made modern china.

Hey, please omit swipes from your HN posts. Your comment would be fine without that first bit.

If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be grateful.

Re: The Mao-Kissinger Meeting of 1973

#22

Is everything every written by or about Kissinger somewhere on the internet? I'm pretty sure it would be one of the highest quality textsets you could get for this whole LLM thing.

> somewhere on the internet

if you mean free, no, I don't think so. You can buy the books, of course.

Re: The Mao-Kissinger Meeting of 1973

#23
>At the top of the stairs, I glimpsed Eric Schmidt, the billionaire former Google CEO who co-authored a book on artificial intelligence with Kissinger. I asked him what it was like to collaborate with Dr. K, but he turned back inside.

At Kissinger's birthday party a few days ago.

Re: The Mao-Kissinger Meeting of 1973

#24

> Chairman Mao: You have about 600, 000 Chinese in the United States. We probably don't even have 60 Americans here. I would like to study the problem. I don't know the reason. I wonder if he studied it and what he found.

The full context of that quote sheds some light on this:

> Chairman: The Chinese people are quite xenophobic [排外得很]. You can accommodate many ethnic groups. We don’t have many foreigners in China. You have many different ethnic groups. You have 600,000 Chinese in the United States, but we probably don’t even have 60 Americans. I don’t know why.

I think by the last sentence he meant he didn't know what the reason for the xenophobia was.

Re: The Mao-Kissinger Meeting of 1973

#25

> Chairman Mao: You have about 600, 000 Chinese in the United States. We probably don't even have 60 Americans here. I would like to study the problem. I don't know the reason. I wonder if he studied it and what he found.

I thought about moving to an Asian country as a white person. I asked myself: What does it mean to be Korean? What does it mean to be Taiwanese? What does it mean to be Malaysian?

In most Asian countries ethnicity not a wildly different concept than nationality. So to be Korean means you share a history with other Koreans.

America, at least the liberal side of America, has tried to push the definition of being American towards a set of ideals and values. Someone is not American because they had ancestors who killed british and grew up in a church, but because they believe in human rights and freedom, and that those are things worth sacrificing for.

Without a values based idea of nationality, it means that other nationalities come to exploit your opportunities and you as a country are letting them in to exploit them.

If you've never contemplated the question "What does it mean to be an american?" this is one of the most interesting political/structure of society reads I've read to date: https://www.amacad.org/publication/what-does-it-mean-be-amer...

This "are we an ethnic society", "are we a grouping of ethnic societies", or "are we a values based society" idea makes the state of modern American politics make a lot more sense.

Re: The Mao-Kissinger Meeting of 1973

#26
post #6

What's interesting about this?

It's a major turning point in geopolitics, involving two political genius war criminals having a remarkably frank and honest exchange of views. They're batting around the idea of Japan going Soviet at one point. I was fascinated.

Frank and honest? There's so much bullshitting in this convo I can smell it 50 years later.

Anyway, my comment was not to say that this is document is stupid but rather "could someone please point out the interesting bits".

Re: The Mao-Kissinger Meeting of 1973

#27
post #11
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a major turning point in geopolitics, involving two political genius war criminals having a remarkably frank and honest exchange of views. They're batting around the idea of Japan going Soviet at one point. I was fascinated.

There's a hold out Japanese communist movement, from pre ww2 There's also a truly bizarre subculture of pro North Korean longterm Japanese resident people. It would not surprise me that in the 70s anyone in politics could believe a soviet Japan was possible. The Baath party slaughtered the Iraqi communists in the sixties, Indonesia slaughtered The Sukharno supporting communists along with passive support from the UK…

[deleted]

Re: The Mao-Kissinger Meeting of 1973

#28
Probably the most consequential outcome of US-China cordiality in the early 1970s was that China contracted with US firms to build ammonia-fertilizer factories:

> "In the early 1970s, China negotiated contracts with foreign firms for construction of thirteen large nitrogenous-fertilizer plants. By 1980 all thirteen plants had been completed, and ten were fully operational."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technological_and_industrial_h...

By the early 1980s, China's food production was finally on a stable footing, and this was largely due to the import of "Green Revolution" technology enabled by the opening up of trade with the West:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_agriculture_in_Chin...

It can be said with a fair degree of certainty that both the Soviet and Chinese systems of Communist authoritarianism prevented the kind of innovative approaches to agricultural production that the more open academic research environment in the United States encouraged. The contrast between Norman Borlaugh and Trofim Lysenko is somewhat instructive in that regard, and it seems Mao's China had no shortage of Lysenko types.

Of course, the consequences of the Green Revolution, i.e. steep population growth and increased reliance on fossil fuels, were not really understood at the time, either. Now we sort of have the tiger by the tail, while steadily increasing climate stress is starting to undercut agricultural production, in China, India, Africa, Europe, the USA...

Re: The Mao-Kissinger Meeting of 1973

#30

> Chairman Mao: You have about 600, 000 Chinese in the United States. We probably don't even have 60 Americans here. I would like to study the problem. I don't know the reason. I wonder if he studied it and what he found.

I thought about moving to an Asian country as a white person. I asked myself: What does it mean to be Korean? What does it mean to be Taiwanese? What does it mean to be Malaysian? In most Asian countries ethnicity not a wildly different concept than nationality. So to be Korean means you share a history with other Koreans. America, at least the liberal side of America, has tried to push the definition of being Americ…

Are you a society? Or just people living within the same economic zone and with the same language?
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