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Ask HN: Is it time to resurrect a Usenet clone?

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Re: Ask HN: Is it time to resurrect a Usenet clone?

#61
post #53
post #12

1) usenet was a kind of opt-in syndication that ran through uucp jobs that often went through whitelists at the local level, often over low bandwidth modems. pirate and other binary channels were frequently not rebroadcast. 2) A decentralized usenet like you're describing is an email list with an archive. 3) Absolutely not. you're describing realID and Facebook. 4) Absolutely not you're describing the powermod proble…

And why don’t we just build stuff on top of email?

how many accounts do you have require an email address for contact / verification?

would authy or okta be better? they for sure require an email address.

would a decentralized usenet that requires me to be bob jones/125 nonce st/cleveland be better for me the user or.. whatever the hell this proposal is?

Why should I send my passport or birth certificate to some random server on the internet?

fighting spam is an issue that I addressed in my first comment.

Re: Ask HN: Is it time to resurrect a Usenet clone?

#62

Usenet thrived in a time where most of us trusted each other, traffic was an order of magnitude lighter, trolls were few, spam was unheard of, and moderation - if any - was cheap and painless. I honestly believe those times are past us. And I say that as someone that loved Usenet back in the day. What you're asking for, for free , isn't possible.

There was spam, for sure. There were also "kill files" for readers, which were immensely helpful in removing trolls from your stream. And there were some epic trolls, back in the day. Xah Lee comes to mind. He actually has an interesting website ( http://xahlee.info/ ), which I found recently when searching for a solution to an elisp problem. Yes, he was a troll on comp.lang.lisp.

Re: Ask HN: Is it time to resurrect a Usenet clone?

#64
> The current events of Reddit and Stack Exchange amplifying a thought that communities and users' contributions should be decentralized. The current structure of online communication poses a major risk.

Does it? People have been free to communicate. They are still free to communicate via a different platform. There's no "risk" here. Those companies have investors who expect the companies to make money. Any different organization is going to sit there and expect to pull in enough to at least keep the lights on, but while people find it a worthwhile thing to donate to the Wikimedia foundation, I don't think you'll find that they'd do the same for Reddit 2.0.

> 1. There has to be a movement at both protocol and community-level to bring a Usenet like forum for general consumption. Different decetralized subgroups hosting and replicating the communities for others.

We HAVE Usenet. Maybe figure out why Usenet was abandoned by most people before replicating something that is broken and doesn't work for discussion.

> 2. The model needs to be rethought to ensure that the thoughts and knowledge of communities and users belong to them.

This is literally useless and so far down the list of concerns of users that it only makes sense to the exact kind of people that other people hate to encounter on forums.

> 3. These forums should encourage less anonymity and more persistent communication.

LOL.

> 4. Trustworthy individuals should run these forums, chosen by the community. Individual groups, academia, organizations running the communities but easily redistributed across to people who want it. This was usenet.

This is a lie. Unmoderated newsgroups absolutely thrived in the heyday of Usenet while the other groups withered on the vine because nobody wanted to deal with the steel-fisted asshattery that was Usenet moderation. Reddit moderation is light-years better than Usenet's ever was, and that's not even talking about the fact that Usenet was designed for an age when people connected to the internet 30 minutes a day and didn't have powerful, permanently connected computers in their pockets.

> Failure to address these issues allows mega companies to exploit data and control access against users' wishes.

Mega companies are going to exploit data and control access regardless of what else happens because there's value there.

> Taking action is crucial to prevent unfavorable outcomes and hold ourselves accountable.

Taking a step back and realizing that Usenet was an epic failure for discussion would be a good starting point.

Re: Ask HN: Is it time to resurrect a Usenet clone?

#66
post #65

https://join-lemmy.org/ Lemmy is a federated Reddit clone. It already works and is available. As far as I know currently the best alternative. Please, join a smaller instance currently. The biggest ones are already overloaded.

I wish there was something else.

For building a coherent community federation is a bug not a feature.

Re: Ask HN: Is it time to resurrect a Usenet clone?

#67
post #17

Usenet thrived in a time where most of us trusted each other, traffic was an order of magnitude lighter, trolls were few, spam was unheard of, and moderation - if any - was cheap and painless. I honestly believe those times are past us. And I say that as someone that loved Usenet back in the day. What you're asking for, for free , isn't possible.

>traffic was an order of magnitude lighter I think this is the elephant in the room that most "resurrect usenet" proposals ignore. Usenet hosting has coalesced around huge providers because the volume of binaries traffic presents a significant challenge, namely that you need beefy, expensive server infra to manage the traffic and retention. The "next big thing" after Reddit won't be a plain text-only service. HN and…

Perhaps, but HN only satiates the desire for a text-only forum for a pretty niche community. There are plenty of subreddits that don't really touch on anything tech related. Insofar as binary content goes, Supernews is still around and charges about $12/mo (they're currently running a half off promo).

Sonic's ditched their NNTP servers as they move from being an ISP to a web provider, but back in the day they provided their own NNTP servers and included a Supernews subscription.

Re: Ask HN: Is it time to resurrect a Usenet clone?

#68
post #66
post #65

https://join-lemmy.org/ Lemmy is a federated Reddit clone. It already works and is available. As far as I know currently the best alternative. Please, join a smaller instance currently. The biggest ones are already overloaded.

I wish there was something else. For building a coherent community federation is a bug not a feature.

Federation makes it easier for users to join. If you don’t need that, there are plenty self-hosted alternatives. For example, HN itself.

Re: Ask HN: Is it time to resurrect a Usenet clone?

#69
post #47

I wonder if some of those commenting actually used USENET. I did, for years. Don't remember how long. USENET had many excellent corners as well as places where you could witness or, if desired, participate in, full-on fecal matter throwing contests. Not sure why people think it was some idyllic environment different from anything seen today. The key thing to understand is that people are pretty much the same. The mas…

> USENET had many excellent corners as well as places where you could witness or, if desired, participate in, full-on fecal matter throwing contests. Not sure why people think it was some idyllic environment different from anything seen today. I was fairly late to the game, but by the time I was on usenet, it was _mostly_ full of spam and flamewars, with only a few "moderated" groups being of value. (And even those t…

The eternal September is living proof that no discussion system can scale without robust moderation. Usenet worked when it was a handful of academics, students, and professionals. Once the average Joe got access it went downhill in a hurry, especially on the groups that had the broadest appeal. rec.music was hopeless, but rec.music.classical.guitar would probably be pretty good.

Even Reddit shows this, with the default (the ones you get if you don't login) subreddits being a sea of trash but a lot of value to be found in the more specialized subreddits.

Re: Ask HN: Is it time to resurrect a Usenet clone?

#70
post #61
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And why don’t we just build stuff on top of email?

how many accounts do you have require an email address for contact / verification? would authy or okta be better? they for sure require an email address. would a decentralized usenet that requires me to be bob jones/125 nonce st/cleveland be better for me the user or.. whatever the hell this proposal is? Why should I send my passport or birth certificate to some random server on the internet? fighting spam is an issu…

Hmm, not sure my intention came across properly in my short comment.

I meant to say, why don’t we build social media on top of email? It’s a protocol we already use for everything.

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