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Ask HN: Is it time to resurrect a Usenet clone?

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Re: Ask HN: Is it time to resurrect a Usenet clone?

#11

Usenet thrived in a time where most of us trusted each other, traffic was an order of magnitude lighter, trolls were few, spam was unheard of, and moderation - if any - was cheap and painless. I honestly believe those times are past us. And I say that as someone that loved Usenet back in the day. What you're asking for, for free , isn't possible.

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: Is it time to resurrect a Usenet clone?

#12
1) usenet was a kind of opt-in syndication that ran through uucp jobs that often went through whitelists at the local level, often over low bandwidth modems. pirate and other binary channels were frequently not rebroadcast.

2) A decentralized usenet like you're describing is an email list with an archive.

3) Absolutely not. you're describing realID and Facebook.

4) Absolutely not you're describing the powermod problem that ruins all of these larger forums.

and since you seem a little unfamiliar with it's history, you should look up ARMM

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARMM_(Usenet)

http://www.catb.org/~esr/jargon/html/A/ARMM.html

Re: Ask HN: Is it time to resurrect a Usenet clone?

#13
post #6

Usenet thrived in a time where most of us trusted each other, traffic was an order of magnitude lighter, trolls were few, spam was unheard of, and moderation - if any - was cheap and painless. I honestly believe those times are past us. And I say that as someone that loved Usenet back in the day. What you're asking for, for free , isn't possible.

I fear you might be right. But somehow, HN is a counter-example? I rarely even see a bad joke, because we’re a self-selected sample of people who care about the edges of professional computing. So I say, why not?

The average person has no idea what 90% of the headlines on HN are even referring to, giving it a degree of self-moderation.

Re: Ask HN: Is it time to resurrect a Usenet clone?

#14
post #9
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I fear you might be right. But somehow, HN is a counter-example? I rarely even see a bad joke, because we’re a self-selected sample of people who care about the edges of professional computing. So I say, why not?

HN has a lot more powerful and strict moderation than Usenet ever had.

HN has shadowbanning, sockpuppets, etc... all the goodies that have been privately demonstrated to work, and work well; and most of those work even better when combined with a pretense of 'not having that here'

Re: Ask HN: Is it time to resurrect a Usenet clone?

#15

Usenet thrived in a time where most of us trusted each other, traffic was an order of magnitude lighter, trolls were few, spam was unheard of, and moderation - if any - was cheap and painless. I honestly believe those times are past us. And I say that as someone that loved Usenet back in the day. What you're asking for, for free , isn't possible.

I think a major component of the difference between contributing then and contributing now is friction/skill/interest. Back then, you had to be specifically interested in learning how to get connected, which was a niche endeavor, while the masses were oblivious or too cool for school. Now, you can simply join almost any online community using baseline skills that an enormous fraction of Earth's population already has.

Artificially constructing a similar level of friction/gatekeeping would have major downsides that might not be worth it, but it could theoretically achieve a community that behaves as that past one did, if that's the goal. Sort of a CAPTCHA to prove you're not just a human, but a leet one. As others have said, HN achieves this in a way. Perhaps non-tech communities can do a similar thing. But educational materials to slowly penetrate the barrier must exist.

Re: Ask HN: Is it time to resurrect a Usenet clone?

#16
Usenet was kind of sketchy though (and still is). If you browsed long enough you started discovering very niche and outright illegal shit on your travels. Then you had Usenet proxy services who censored that stuff, and for the better. I don't want to access sketchy shit accidentally or have it anywhere near my hard-drive.

Re: Ask HN: Is it time to resurrect a Usenet clone?

#17

Usenet thrived in a time where most of us trusted each other, traffic was an order of magnitude lighter, trolls were few, spam was unheard of, and moderation - if any - was cheap and painless. I honestly believe those times are past us. And I say that as someone that loved Usenet back in the day. What you're asking for, for free , isn't possible.

>traffic was an order of magnitude lighter

I think this is the elephant in the room that most "resurrect usenet" proposals ignore. Usenet hosting has coalesced around huge providers because the volume of binaries traffic presents a significant challenge, namely that you need beefy, expensive server infra to manage the traffic and retention.

The "next big thing" after Reddit won't be a plain text-only service. HN and Tildes already serve this niche. So any proposal for USENET 2.0 must provide a treatment of the bandwidth/data retention issue.

Re: Ask HN: Is it time to resurrect a Usenet clone?

#18
post #7

Two years ago this is where someone would chime in with a blockchain-based solution, paying moderators with usenetcoin.

Unrelated to the root post, but I’m so glad that time is over. There was a ~1year period where it was nearly impossible to have a conversation about solving something that didn’t involve someone scheming about how to reframe the problem as an economic model, and then drown out everyone with some half-baked tokenomics concept as a way to “solve it all!”. It really felt like a step backwards in critical thinking for people that I did (and still do, now that they’ve chilled out) respect for their problem solving.

Re: Ask HN: Is it time to resurrect a Usenet clone?

#19
My nostalgia for the ancien internet is deep and abiding, but it does not extend to actually wanting to use Usenet again. Usenet was never a good solution, it was just the only solution for a long time. So, to the extent that the proposition is for something that is Usenet-like, my vote is no. If you're saying "should there be a better, decentralized Reddit that is not garbage like Usenet" the answer flips instantaneously to yes!

Re: Ask HN: Is it time to resurrect a Usenet clone?

#20
post #12

1) usenet was a kind of opt-in syndication that ran through uucp jobs that often went through whitelists at the local level, often over low bandwidth modems. pirate and other binary channels were frequently not rebroadcast. 2) A decentralized usenet like you're describing is an email list with an archive. 3) Absolutely not. you're describing realID and Facebook. 4) Absolutely not you're describing the powermod proble…

In the post-truth era, (3) will become increasingly vital because reputation is the only tool we have to distinguish signal from noise.
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