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Reddark: Website to watch subreddits going dark

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Re: Reddark: Website to watch subreddits going dark

#311

Post by dimmke »

jacquesm wrote: post #306
dimmke wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ultimately, we can only speculate on what's going to happen. Neither of us can say conclusively, we can't see the future. All I can say is that subreddits are built on the idea of autonomy - it's not just that they have their own mods. It's that this is a semi autonomous community. If you look at a lot of the subreddits that decided to go dark, their moderation held polls/voting about it and asked for community input…

> All I can say is that subreddits are built on the idea of autonomy On the illusion of autonomy. > Using Twitter as an example when the acquisition isn't even a year old isn't valid, in my opinion. Talk to me in 2 years. Then why join this debate in the first place?

>On the illusion of autonomy.

This is the part that your side doesn't get - having power to do something and not using it doesn't mean you're giving off an "illusion".

Everybody who runs a subreddit is fully aware that Reddit admins have the power to shut them down if necessary, but the precedent that has been set is that there would be a lot of communication or they'd have to be doing something flagrantly illegal for that to happen.

I don't understand why this is so hard to understand conceptually - because it's how the international community works. Countries generally get sanctioned, not invaded.

Yes, it's not a perfect system. Yes, countries like the United States stage coups and regime changes, but it is better than the old way of invading and trying to rule a country like they're a colony.

>Then why join this debate in the first place?

Because the goalpost I keep seeing put in place to frame this discussion is that if Reddit doesn't immediately collapse after shutting down third party apps, then all the protests made no difference and clearly nothing has changed. My point is that it might take multiple years before we see how hollowed out the site has truly become. And it might still be a very popular website from a traffic perspective, but I believe it will have lost the core "engine" that makes it work.

Also I have a lot of work to do that I don't want to do and commenting on here is a way that I procrastinate but I think this is probably a safe assumption for most people spending their morning commenting here.

Re: Reddark: Website to watch subreddits going dark

#312

Post by giraffe_lady »

Grimburger wrote: post #110

Maybe it's the chaotic neutral talking here but I reckon mods going on strike for two days while leaving the subs public would show just how important they are to Reddit Inc. and why their unpaid work still has a cost to the company.

I've modded medium-large subs before and though it's been a few years and I'm sure the automation has improved and I doubt it's perfect. A small but significant part of the mod queue on big subs is a steady trickle of things intended to offend, shock, disgust, or harm: goatse-type stuff but also violent gruesome mutilation & death photos, straight up child porn.

The consensus on HN is largely that being hurt or offended is the moral transgression, but some of the base motivation of moderation and moderators is protecting people from that kind of harm. Intentionally exposing people to it through inaction to make a point to another entity is not particularly neutral, I don't think.

Re: Reddark: Website to watch subreddits going dark

#313

Post by skinnymuch »

stavros wrote: post #146
Cthulhu_ wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, one part of the subreddits say they'll be closed for 24 or 48 hours, others have said they'll be closed until this has been resolved. Likewise, several major apps (I know of Apollo and RIF) will shut down on the 30th, before the API changes take effect. I'm sure some people will relent and use the official app / website after that, but others will just quit. I'm not sure yet myself, it'll suddenly make a big ga…

I deleted the Reddit app a few months ago because the comments are a hivemind and it was annoying me, but TikTok seems to scratch the reddit itch without the annoyances.

HN is as much of a hivemind as reddit.

Re: Reddark: Website to watch subreddits going dark

#314

Post by xeromal »

dimmke wrote: post #307
xeromal wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This right here. I've been on reddit since 2010 or so and the dejure "most important thing in the world to talk about" is ever changing. Hong Kong, COVID-19, Ukraine, Harambe, Victory (the AMA person?), the great subreddit purge to name a few. Everyone claims they're going to delete reddit but will simply forget about it in a few weeks. haha

I've been on Reddit since 2009, and never cared about any of that stuff or claimed I was going to leave Reddit over it. I absolutely am leaving Reddit over this. I am keeping my account, because I might need it to promote my business (it still has utility in that area and I am pragmatic, I am not going to not do something that could help my business for ideological reasons), but I will no longer be using it on a dail…

I'm sure you will. I'm saying the population as a whole won't.

Re: Reddark: Website to watch subreddits going dark

#317

Post by dimmke »

xeromal wrote: post #314
dimmke wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been on Reddit since 2009, and never cared about any of that stuff or claimed I was going to leave Reddit over it. I absolutely am leaving Reddit over this. I am keeping my account, because I might need it to promote my business (it still has utility in that area and I am pragmatic, I am not going to not do something that could help my business for ideological reasons), but I will no longer be using it on a dail…

I'm sure you will. I'm saying the population as a whole won't.

You're saying a large percentage of the current userbase won't (probably >90%)

However, all users aren't the same. While I did not moderate any subreddits, I contributed substantially to several small ones in the way of posts, upvotes and thoughtful content. That's the stuff that really brings value to Reddit - it's the long tail. And even if the percentages are right, if the 5-10% that leave are some of the most valuable users of the site it will have a HUGE effect.

There are things about Reddit that are not widely known - the often thrown around stat of a small number of accounts moderating a huge number of subreddits is the tip of the iceberg. There's also a subreddit that you only get invited to if you have over 100k comment karma, called the Century Club. That's been around for a long time. Reddit knows it needs power users, not lurkers that add no value but advertisement impressions.

If they are trying to pivot to just become a site where you can infinite scroll memes and focus on the big subreddits, then they're directly positioning themselves to compete with Facebook and TikTok which seems pretty bad strategically IMO. It definitely doesn't bode well for the next decade of Reddit.

Re: Reddark: Website to watch subreddits going dark

#318

Post by worrycue »

sofal wrote: post #309
Aaargh20318 wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being a moderator is a lot of work. You'd have to find a sucker to provide free labor for you. You can maybe find a few, but can you find enough to replace all moderators once you pissed them off enough ?

Being a good moderator is a lot of work. There will be no lack of people that would line up to have moderating powers in a large enough subreddit.

> There will be no lack of people that would line up to have moderating powers in a large enough subreddit.

I don’t see how having bad mods not willing to put in the work and is just taking the role for the power is good for the subreddit and Reddit as a whole.

Re: Reddark: Website to watch subreddits going dark

#319

Post by bombcar »

hipposec wrote: post #285
izzydata wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is what I want to happen although I know it never will. Communities used to be spread out across the internet on individual sites that were maintained by enthusiasts as a hobby. I found the interactions among such communities to bar far more enjoyable. Once any community reaches a threshold of users it starts to get unpleasant.

I think the other thing that made forums a better place was the absence of a upvote/downvote system. It reduced the motivation of just chasing attention with little jokes and threads could stay on the front page so long as there was active conversation going on.

Forums were also dedicated to "mostly related" things (like a subreddit) and it was a bit of effort to create a new account on a different forum, and you were obviously new at that point.

So "brigading" and such weren't really much of an issue (and the issue has always been people barging into a community, knowing nothing about it, pontificating on some post/issue, and promptly leaving).

Forums still exist, but you need a slightly strange sort of person to continue to put the effort into them when Reddit is "free and easy".

Re: Reddark: Website to watch subreddits going dark

#320

Post by worrycue »

hipposec wrote: post #285
izzydata wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is what I want to happen although I know it never will. Communities used to be spread out across the internet on individual sites that were maintained by enthusiasts as a hobby. I found the interactions among such communities to bar far more enjoyable. Once any community reaches a threshold of users it starts to get unpleasant.

I think the other thing that made forums a better place was the absence of a upvote/downvote system. It reduced the motivation of just chasing attention with little jokes and threads could stay on the front page so long as there was active conversation going on.

The voting system is gamification of forum posting. Instead of posting when you feel you have something to say, people end up chasing a number for the dopamine hit.
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