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Google uses in-person office attendance as part of employee performance reviews

fortune.com

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Re: Google uses in-person office attendance as part of employee performance reviews

#271

Post by pfannkuchen »

sublimefire wrote: post #170
almost_usual wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They can afford to live in SF, they can’t afford the lifestyle they want.

this is a bit bizarre, how do you know what personal issues they have? maybe they need to care for someone or need special assistance due to their disability, maybe she is actually paid less than many other PMs

I think it was stated that she “couldn’t afford” to live there, not that she just “couldn’t” live there. Pay at large companies is typically in a defined band, so while she could be getting paid less it wouldn’t make or break being able to afford living in a place at all. If one can afford “a” place to live, but perceives the city as unaffordable, then the places that are affordable must be considered below standard.

Re: Google uses in-person office attendance as part of employee performance reviews

#272

Post by SketchySeaBeast »

globular-toast wrote: post #251
angarg12 wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now that my company has started enforcing RTO, I noticed patterns in some of my colleagues, such as arriving late and leaving early, leaving the laptop in their desk disappearing for a long while, not answering messages for hours with nowhere to be seen, and very vague status updates when asked. It turns out slackers will slack, be it at home or at the office.

I don't always slack off, but I do often need time to rest and gather my thoughts. Sometimes my brain is just not ready or already fatigued and needs time. At home I'll chill out watching some mindless Youtube video or go for a walk. At the office I used to pretend to work by clicking around in some emails or something that was equally unproductive. I prefer not having to pretend to work.

I find that having to pretend to be engaged while I need a rest takes way more time than just taking the time and watching a youtube video for 10 minutes.

Re: Google uses in-person office attendance as part of employee performance reviews

#273

Post by dogleash »

mduggles wrote: post #225

After trying both for years I don't really know what we're talking about here. I can go to an office where we can schedule room to have a video call to sit around and discuss what tickets we're going to create and who will work on them. Those tickets will get worked on and tracked then we end up creating a product or feature. I can stay at home to join the video call to sit around and discuss what tickets we're going…

> It was never polite to just wander up to people working on something and bother them with random junk.

A lot of 'management' doesn't build communication or workflows more advanced than that. And when people are never more than a short walk away, they don't have to.

Slack is just the online version of that. A noisy conversation always within earshot. One that you can usually ignore, but should still be a little aware of what's going on overall, and occasionally you get pulled in to the larger conversation.

Re: Google uses in-person office attendance as part of employee performance reviews

#274

Post by llm_nerd »

bentlegen wrote: post #266
llm_nerd wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The obvious counterpoint is that many people were and are miserable commuting into a workplace and then putting in the grind. It's actually humorous that most tech "social media" like HN, Reddit, Digg, and so on were much busier back when most of us were in offices, because we all would bide our days doing anything but work. You could see the bursts as the primary demographic timezones started their "work" days. Not…

> It's actually humorous that most tech "social media" like HN, Reddit, Digg, and so on were much busier back when most of us were in offices, because we all would bide our days doing anything but work. Do you have a source on this? I’m both curious and skeptical. (And ironically, for many in Europe and Eastern NA/SA it’s the work day right now.)

100% anecdotal. Zero credible sources.

On the anecdote side I do know that within the past couple of years I saw a discussion on here about how many visitors someone gets from a top of the front page on HN. The numbers were absolutely miserly compared to what I experienced getting the same repeatedly years earlier. Like, 1/20th or less.

Maybe it's just HN that declined, but if so where did the tech news community go? Digg? /. Reddit /r/programming (to some degree yes for the last one, though still it is nothing compared to what once was).

Everything is much quieter and more restrained than it was.

And sure, there are time zones circling the globe. But generally on the English tech sites, the US/Canada are going to dominate the demographics and have an outsized effect on spikes.

Re: Google uses in-person office attendance as part of employee performance reviews

#275

Post by garciasn »

JamesLeonis wrote: post #270
bluefirebrand wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of companies want the benefits of distributed teams, but also want to force everyone to come to offices and do conference calls in meeting rooms instead of work remote. It's mind boggling to me. All I can think is that there is a lot of ego tied up in offices for some reason.

Wall Street is pressuring everybody for Return to Office to shore up their collapsing commercial real estate holdings.

And to further reduce headcount through silent layoffs.

Re: Google uses in-person office attendance as part of employee performance reviews

#276

Post by gabereiser »

extr wrote: post #20

After going back and forth between in-person and remote jobs, my conclusion: * Remote work is much better if you know what you're building and "just" need to execute. * In-person is much better if you don't know what you need to build, are trying to "figure it out as you go along", and are relying on the implicit fast feedback loop of standing next to each other. Obvious, right? But I think what I've realize is the d…

I have the same conclusions as well however, in-person collaboration can be done remotely but it requires less professionalism and more trust. You have to allow for unforeseen moments and allow each participant to have their time to weigh in. Take breaks. It’s a 2.5x time slog vs in-person but it can be done with whiteboard tools and open honest communication. It’s the ones that expect excellence that struggle with remote’s imperfections.

Re: Google uses in-person office attendance as part of employee performance reviews

#277

Post by taeric »

I put in the last thread that I find having an attendance score rather interesting for a company that is so proud of how well OKRs work for them.

That is, I can see some reasons to want more visibility into what people are working on. And when. That is exactly what they pitch OKRs for solving, for as long as the goal is getting achieved, you don't have to measure other things.

Instead, this is what happens when you have bean counters look at the system. Everything starts looking like a bean to be counted. You can't, with a straight face, tell me that attendance counts, but lines of code doesn't. Or all sorts of other countable things that we all, as an industry, claim to agree is a bad idea to count.

Re: Google uses in-person office attendance as part of employee performance reviews

#278

Post by beoberha »

twic wrote: post #228
beoberha wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you articulated a sentiment a lot of people have very well. For the non-decision makers, there is a strange dichotomy I see with coding. Remotely, I’m vastly more productive in getting coding work done. I’m sure most people would agree. But that productivity is almost erased by onboarding new hires. There are so many aspects of software engineering where it’s so much easier to be sitting next to someone, poin…

> Remotely, I’m vastly more productive in getting coding work done. I’m sure most people would agree. I certainly don't agree at all . Home is where all the distractions are. Home is where i can drift off to make a cup of tea and end up spending an hour reading the newspaper without anyone noticing. I think it would be useful to understand the distribution of peoples' feelings and experience about this. I have seen s…

Sure, I get that. But the office has just as many if not more distractions. Much easier to get pulled into a conversation while getting tea at the office.

Re: Google uses in-person office attendance as part of employee performance reviews

#279

Post by paulcole »

brookst wrote: post #244
paulcole wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are more conditions that pertain Remote Work is better if 1. You prefer remote work This always gets to be such a dogmatic discussion that will to someone claiming anyone who likes working in an office has no social life. It’s just a preference. Remote work is not overall objectively better than office work (but you can create a set of goals for which this is true). Office work is not the right choice (but you…

For an autonomous IC who does not need to lead or contribute to thinks like whiteboarding, strategy discussions, client visits, etc, that is true. There are jobs where in-person is just better, full stop. Remote can be accommodated, but it is not always exclusively about what the employee prefers.

> There are jobs where in-person is just better, full stop

Well yeah a surgeon should be working in person, you got me there.

Re: Google uses in-person office attendance as part of employee performance reviews

#280

Post by laurentlb »

deelowe wrote: post #269
laurentlb wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, remote work is still allowed. It might be a bit more difficult to switch to a remote work contract now (but still possible), but people who are already remote will continue like this.

> people who are already remote will continue like this My understanding is that everyone has to get approval even people who are currently remote. For those who are near an office, they are being told to expect to be asked to come in frequently.

Many people applied for fully remote work last year and got a contract with it (often with a different compensation). They already got the approval.

What changes is that new approvals will be "by exception only".

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