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Clearing 500k feral cats from New York’s streets

nytimes.com

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Re: Clearing 500k feral cats from New York’s streets

#201

Post by HelloMcFly »

trhway wrote: post #165
m463 wrote: post #142

I hate that cats kill birds. "We estimate that free-ranging domestic cats kill 1.3-4.0 billion birds and 6.3-22.3 billion mammals annually." https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms2380 Honestly, birds are pretty much the only surviving wildlife in many areas and I wonder what our children and grandchildren will encounter.

In any discussion of cats that study is mentioned and usually mentioned several times at that, and that is not surprising giving that it is published in Nature and comes from Smithsonian - it immediately generates a lot of trust in it. 2 things are notable about that study: 1. the researchers didn't specify the proportion of ill and old birds and mammals in those billions of killed. It is a glaring deficiency for suc…

> 3. cats control rats population

I'm not here to tell you I know the absolute truth on the matter, but I can say definitively that your assertion of this fact extends beyond conclusive data. Cats decrease rat sightings, but urban rat populations are good at evading them [1, 2]. Where cats do prey on rats, it's usually juveniles with ultimately little effect on local populations [3, 4].

It's easy to imagine that a certain percentage of the birds cats are killing are ill or old. Yet in the absence of actual data, your assumption that this is the bulk of bird deaths seems like obvious wishful thinking. It's also just as easy to imagine many of the deaths are juvenile / nesting birds too. And unlike rats, most birds can't repopulate so quickly.

[1] https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fevo.2018.00146... [2] https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/12/science/cats-v-rats-in-ne... [3] https://www.jstor.org/stable/1381025 [4] https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal...

Re: Clearing 500k feral cats from New York’s streets

#202

Post by [deleted] »

peanuty1 wrote: post #190
fhe wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

purely as a thought experiment, I wonder if given enough time, the NYC stray cat population would observe a genetic drift towards larger body size and start preying on the abundant local rat population? I never lived in NYC, and don't know how big the rats are there, but the rats I've seen (mostly at uni. biology labs) they grow to about 25cm in length (about the length from tip of index finger to tip of thumb with h…

> I wonder if given enough time, the NYC stray cat population would observe a genetic drift towards larger body size How much time are we talking? Thousands of years?

[deleted]

Re: Clearing 500k feral cats from New York’s streets

#203

Post by boredemployee »

MisterTea wrote: post #60
Insanity wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which is also something I can just not comprehend as a pet owner (cat / dog). I already feel bad leaving my dog alone for a few hours a week lol. (With a cat, less so. They are less dramatic about being left alone.. :) ) EDIT: forgot to close a parenthesis and the LISPer in me panicked.

> With a cat, less so. They are less dramatic about being left alone.. :) ) I have two male cats, brothers, of which one becomes very needy and whiny after I'm gone for a few days (hes a needy little guy). He stays close, follows me around, whines and mews for attention, and sleeps on the bed with me or next to it. After a week this behavior dies down to normal levels of attention and he goes back to sleeping in the…

I can relate 100%. Cats are amazing creatures

Re: Clearing 500k feral cats from New York’s streets

#204

Post by naillo »

kornhole wrote: post #198
throwaway675309 wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article mentions that the cats may be responsible for control of mice population, but apparently attacks on the New York rats are relatively rare being far larger and more aggressive.

NY could introduce coyotes that will take care of both the rats and cats. They mostly hunt at night here in SF.

Then bring in some bears to take care of the coyote problem

Re: Clearing 500k feral cats from New York’s streets

#205

Post by imgabe »

naillo wrote: post #204
kornhole wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

NY could introduce coyotes that will take care of both the rats and cats. They mostly hunt at night here in SF.

Then bring in some bears to take care of the coyote problem

Then some gorillas to fight off the bears.

Re: Clearing 500k feral cats from New York’s streets

#206

Post by iosono88 »

badpun wrote: post #181
throwaway675309 wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article mentions that the cats may be responsible for control of mice population, but apparently attacks on the New York rats are relatively rare being far larger and more aggressive.

Apparently rodents avoid places that have a scent of a cat. So, cats don't even have to hunt them to have an effect on the population.

[dead]

Re: Clearing 500k feral cats from New York’s streets

#207

Post by garyclarke27 »

throwaway675309 wrote: post #169
yabatopia wrote: post #125

Be careful what you wish for. It reminds me of the Four Pests campaign in China around 1960, especially the extermination of sparrows, one of the causes of the Great Chinese Famine. 500k feral cats: that's a lot of mice, pigeons and young rats! Without predators like feral cats, NY's rat problem could become even more, well, interesting.

The article mentions that the cats may be responsible for control of mice population, but apparently attacks on the New York rats are relatively rare being far larger and more aggressive.

That’s nonsense - When I lived in a rural area I had a Bengal cat that would bring home much larger prey than Rats such as Rabbits and Squirrels.

Re: Clearing 500k feral cats from New York’s streets

#209

Post by woodruffw »

Since nobody else has mentioned it: rats in NYC are frequently poisoned and are dangerous for predators to eat. The city has had a number of famous hawks and owls die over the years due to poisoned rats, most recently Pale Male[1].

I have a feral cat that lives under my stoop, and I like it. But I’m also not under a bucolic daydream about a closed ecosystem between this city’s cats and rats.

[1]: https://www.nytimes.com/2023/05/17/nyregion/pale-male-hawk.h...

Re: Clearing 500k feral cats from New York’s streets

#210

Post by clairity »

midoridensha wrote: post #159
clairity wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

here, they now give neutered cats a tattoo on the belly (~1cm green line) instead of clipping. this is a bit more humane and becoming more the standard nowadays i believe.

I think that's pretty normal for pet cats: mine are like this. However, I don't see how it's useful for stray cats. You can't just pick up a stray cat to look at its belly. A clipped ear you can see from a distance.

yes, i should clarify that LA has a pretty effective no-kill cat rescue network (even sending rescues to other states for adoption), so most cats here are neutered, chipped, vaccinated, and tattooed when rescued and adopted out (e.g., my sweet little rescue cat). but there are also dedicated TNR volunteers who strictly neuter and release stray cats and employ the ear-clipping method for that reason (easier to see from distance).

ear-clipping isn't foolproof though, since many feral cats will not sit still long enough or let you get close enough for you to observe a clipped ear. that said, plenty of stray cats are relative docile and friendly, and totally adoptable by simply picking them up and taking them home (which is what one of my neighbors did).

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