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Google uses in-person office attendance as part of employee performance reviews

fortune.com

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Re: Google uses in-person office attendance as part of employee performance reviews

#181

Post by nhagr »

fhd2 wrote: post #124

Quick search on this thread didn't reveal the word "flame" (as in "flame war"), so I can´t resist: That's what the remote vs on-site debate is. About as interesting and ultimately inconclusive as Emacs vs Vi. Neither is universally better. It depends, _primarily_ on the people involved and their preferences. My advice would be to try and work with people that are on the same page about this with you - if possible. If…

I agree with respect to real programmers.

For the politicians and influencers, however, on-site work is vital (especially if they are good looking or charismatic). They need meetings to shine optically and verbally and dominate the real workers.

This parasitical category of people usually has the most influence, so the move to return to on-site work is not surprising.

Re: Google uses in-person office attendance as part of employee performance reviews

#182

Post by zeusk »

askafriend wrote: post #120
gunshai wrote: post #16

A friend of mine who is a PM at google was telling me about this the other week. Her job situation sounded so tenuous, in that a lot of it hinged on how cool her manager was with her living situation not being in SF. Also having to ask a friend to swipe her badge because she couldn't afford living in SF.

How can she not afford to live in SF on ~$300k a year?

Because it's not rational to pay $4000+ rent for 1 bed apartment regardless of how much you're paid; especially when that job has no reason to require a physical commute to a shared office space.

Re: Google uses in-person office attendance as part of employee performance reviews

#184

Post by throwaway22032 »

tomp wrote: post #129
beoberha wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you articulated a sentiment a lot of people have very well. For the non-decision makers, there is a strange dichotomy I see with coding. Remotely, I’m vastly more productive in getting coding work done. I’m sure most people would agree. But that productivity is almost erased by onboarding new hires. There are so many aspects of software engineering where it’s so much easier to be sitting next to someone, poin…

> ’s so much easier to be sitting next to someone, pointing at their monitor, and discussing what and why you are doing something. Instead, you need to hop on a call and awkwardly screen share on a call or write out paragraphs of text to impart the knowledge For me, it's the exact opposite. Before the pandemic, I always found the practice (and even the idea!) of "pairing" quite off-putting. You're standing behind som…

Normal people get showers and wear deodorant dude.

How do you feel about sitting next to someone at a bar?

Re: Google uses in-person office attendance as part of employee performance reviews

#185

Post by Etheryte »

extr wrote: post #20

After going back and forth between in-person and remote jobs, my conclusion: * Remote work is much better if you know what you're building and "just" need to execute. * In-person is much better if you don't know what you need to build, are trying to "figure it out as you go along", and are relying on the implicit fast feedback loop of standing next to each other. Obvious, right? But I think what I've realize is the d…

I think that's only one of many models where remote work works out. The other that I've seen function well across many companies is remote work where team members are highly skilled and have a lot of freedom in choosing what to work on. This essentially lets every domain expert identify what the biggest pain points are in their field and then figure those out. You don't need top down dictatorship for this to work, but you do need a clear vision of where you want to be.

Re: Google uses in-person office attendance as part of employee performance reviews

#186

Post by ekianjo »

jleyank wrote: post #3

It might be useful to "all be in the room" when brainstorming. Once the coding starts, this is just a set of distractions I don't need. I suspect many/most of the developers reading HN want peace and quiet far more than the chance of magical hallway conversations. And it's only an anecdote, but we debugged a problem today where people were in two provinces of Canada and the UK. Were perfectly able to share screens, r…

> It might be useful to "all be in the room" when brainstorming.

Really? what does it bring that you can't do remotely? I can hardly think of a problem where "being in the same room" is a requirement to have a productive discussion

Re: Google uses in-person office attendance as part of employee performance reviews

#187

Post by ekianjo »

wahnfrieden wrote: post #91
andsoitis wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Fully remote with 2-3 day quarterly in-person meet ups would provide tech companies with the in person collaboration they seek and be cheaper I am a fan of hybrid (people can choose whether or not they're in the office). However, you want to be able to collaborate effectively at any time and not have to wait for quarterly gatherings. I've got complex problems to solve together with my team mates!

Hybrid usually means office is required every week. It’s terrible

Exactly, that's basically "not remote most of the time"

Re: Google uses in-person office attendance as part of employee performance reviews

#188

Post by ekianjo »

logicchains wrote: post #141
choeger wrote: post #85

This is just another form of layoffs, I think. The problem is that many other execs will follow. It's bizarre how this is purely about making life worse for the engineers without any rational reason.

>It's bizarre how this is purely about making life worse for the engineers without any rational reason There's absolutely a rational reason: many people in management went into management because they enjoy having power over people, and they can have more power over employees who are physically in office.

> and they can have more power over employees who are physically in office.

that's superficial power

Re: Google uses in-person office attendance as part of employee performance reviews

#189

Post by ekianjo »

mylons wrote: post #87
choeger wrote: post #85

This is just another form of layoffs, I think. The problem is that many other execs will follow. It's bizarre how this is purely about making life worse for the engineers without any rational reason.

it's almost like there should be a union or something

you mean the union of people who show up in the office? Surely they will care a lot about remote workers

Re: Google uses in-person office attendance as part of employee performance reviews

#190

Post by moonchrome »

extr wrote: post #20

After going back and forth between in-person and remote jobs, my conclusion: * Remote work is much better if you know what you're building and "just" need to execute. * In-person is much better if you don't know what you need to build, are trying to "figure it out as you go along", and are relying on the implicit fast feedback loop of standing next to each other. Obvious, right? But I think what I've realize is the d…

How often are entire teams at the same building ? Like the other person mentioned - you're going to meet in conference rooms with video - this was norm pre COVID.

I would say biggest benefits of in office is spontanious meet/discussion, assisting less senior coworkers etc. If I have a heavy day of work to plow through alone I avoid the office. If I need to sync or work on something with others in-person beats all the tools.

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