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Bye Bye Ubuntu, Hello Manjaro. How Did We Get Here?

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Re: Bye Bye Ubuntu, Hello Manjaro. How Did We Get Here?

#181

Post by OfSanguineFire »

pessimizer wrote: post #126
JohnFen wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I willingly use Stable, although if you want something that includes more recent versions, you want Unstable. Personally, there's only been one time in the last decade or so that not using the latest version of something has caused any real headache for me, and that was a manageable situation.

> I willingly use Stable, although if you want something that includes more recent versions, you want Unstable. You want Testing. I don't think people really use Unstable unless they work on Debian itself.

Debian Testing doesn’t get security updates quickly, unlike Stable and Unstable. Hence why the Debian wiki does not recommend Testing for ordinary users.

Re: Bye Bye Ubuntu, Hello Manjaro. How Did We Get Here?

#182

Post by amstan »

mid-kid wrote: post #119
the_pwner224 wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been running Arch for about a decade now and it's only seriously broken a few (low single digits) times. Here are the main failure modes I've experienced: The biggest one seems to be something related to the package mirrors only partially updating, or updates of common dependencies not being atomically applied to all packages - something like that. If you do a pacman -Syu in the middle of the critical time perio…

>User software can have bugs in newer releases, but they're usually minor - you'll still be able to get work done without much disruption. And that's not really an Arch issue . Unless the bug is reported & fixed very quickly, Ubuntu/Fedora are likely to also get the buggy versions, just later. And this is the thing people ignore when they say they have no issues with cutting edge (not necessarily rolling release, whi…

I use arch for my personal machines and work gives me debian. Yes, there are bugs, i usually see them (a lot of them are obvious in KDE) on arch from month 0 to month 1, then if I'm unlucky (depending on when the bug appeared) I'm stuck with them from month 6 to month 12 on my work machine. Very "stable" indeed, it just means I get to see some bugs for much longer and on a delayed time table. It's very rare that anyone goes back and fixes minor bugs like these in the delayed debian packages. Just because something is released on a slower cadence with a bigger delay to release doesn't mean it has fewer bugs.

On the other hand, I had way more instances of a broken system and broken packages (where synaptic/apt just refuses to install anything) on my work computer that has debian than I ever had with arch.

Re: Bye Bye Ubuntu, Hello Manjaro. How Did We Get Here?

#183

Post by friend_and_foe »

eli_gottlieb wrote: post #173
friend_and_foe wrote: post #146

Manjaro isn't much better. They tried to force a proprietary office suite on their users and tried their hand at the adware thing too. Stop relying on "user friendly" distros, you haven't needed them for almost a decade, most common distributions run out of the box with no problems most of the time.

Really? So if I switched back to Gentoo after 20 years away I would find that I could quickly get a nice desktop environment set up, have the NVIDIA graphics drivers properly installed and compatible, log into my office Wifi and detect the office printer, and be able to install Anaconda and get back to training PyTorch models, within a couple of days?

Did you pick gentoo for a reason? Maybe because you don't have a point otherwise?

Re: Bye Bye Ubuntu, Hello Manjaro. How Did We Get Here?

#184

Post by mrtedbear »

howinteresting wrote: post #145
mrtedbear wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also switched to Silverblue and love it. Ubuntu wasn't especially bad, it was more that Silverblue made so much sense. It fixed the issues I was having with other distros where messiness would creep into my setup over time. I also tried NixOS, but it felt too rigid. Silverblue offered the same benefits of immutability without a loss of flexibility.

Do you do development on it? If so, how do you work around Silverblue's restrictions? Curious about people's experiences.

I do. I use toolboxes for pretty much all my development. I've scripted the setup each type of toolbox I use, so they can be reproduced. I use a terminal editor (neovim), but I think it's possible to run vscode from a toolbox too[1].

For graphical apps (browsers etc.) the flatpaks are very handy.

The above setup means I don't really need to layer much in the OS, mainly drivers and common terminal utilities.

[1] https://www.reddit.com/r/Fedora/comments/107lvlf/silverblue_...

Re: Bye Bye Ubuntu, Hello Manjaro. How Did We Get Here?

#185

Post by pmontra »

pessimizer wrote: post #127
pmontra wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been using Debian 11 since after Christmas. Which outdated software am I using? Everything seems just fine as it was on Ubuntu 20.04.

I couldn't tell you, but since Debian 12 is moving into Stable you can see for yourself with a apt-get full-upgrade. For a little while, you'll be as close to cutting edge as Stable gets.

I'll check. The point is that software for web development is not installed with debs but with their own package managers (rvm, npm, pip) or meta managers (asdf) or docker so I'm cutting edge no matter what I get from the distro. Same thing for browsers. I downloaded Firefox from Mozilla and it auto updates more gracefully than the deb I had in Ubuntu: it suggests a restart and doesn't force it when I open a new tab. Chrome has its own apt, I think.

About the rest of the software, it's not very important which version I have. Actually, staying for years on an older Gnome shell won't force me to spend time to adapt to or disable new weirdnesses. Libre Office from n years ago would be OK. Evince, the same. Nautilus, give me the one from 2008.

Re: Bye Bye Ubuntu, Hello Manjaro. How Did We Get Here?

#188

Post by pjmlp »

barbariangrunge wrote: post #109
WD-42 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When your browser is shipped via a snap and is 2 versions out of date because the update mechanism sucks and has been failing silently for over a month, it makes a difference. There's my personal anecdote.

I like the security/privacy promises of options like snaps. It seems like other issues, like file sizes, aren’t the worst. And getting it to match your os options seems like a solvable problem. Could somebody explain why they hate these systems?

They live in the past of outdated security models.

Re: Bye Bye Ubuntu, Hello Manjaro. How Did We Get Here?

#190

Post by pjmlp »

jonathankoren wrote: post #12
elischleifer wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Devil's advocate...how much do we really care about these different distros at this point. The world lives out of the browser. As long as I have chrome and VS Code I'm pretty good to go.

Agree. OSes are practically irrelevant. The only thing I need is a web browser and a terminal with posix like commands. I can (almost) get that on Windows these days. I’ve run Mac for 20 years now, and before that Linux for almost 10. I can’t think of anything I lost when switching beyond focus follows mouse.

One of the downfalls of Linux Desktop, besides the fragmentation, was Apple and Microsoft figuring out that a large majority wants a POSIX like experience, and aren't that deep onto GNU/Linux anyway.

There is a certain irony when the Linux Desktop is on minority when looking around laptops at FOSDEM.

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