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Tesla: Not so easily bricked

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Re: Tesla: Not so easily bricked

#51
This whole bricking story is a little ridiculous.

There are any number of easy ways to 'brick' an internal combustion engine, and yet we're not all torches 'n' pitchforks over them. Partially because ICEs have been around so long that the relatively short list of "things to avoid" is burned indelibly into the popular consciousness. Partially because over a hundred-odd years of continuous engineering, a typical ICE can take a hell of a lot of abuse before it fails.

And note that the "shit that might happen to you" column still isn't trivially dismissed on the ICE side, even after 100+ years of safety engineering. We physically pump highly-flammable liquids into our gas tasks; people still occasionally get burned or even die doing that shit!

Couldn't find many stats, but this is interesting: http://www.nfpa.org/assets/files/PDF/Research/FireSafetyVehi...

Let's assume the $40k figure is at all likely for a vehicle owner that RTFM'd. I'm pretty sure anyone ever burned in a gas-fueled vehicle fire would gladly go back in time to fork over $40k to avoid that experience.

Re: Tesla: Not so easily bricked

#52
post #40
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This post directly contradicts that notion. How does it _directly_ contradict that? Ok so he mentions how the management system will stop the charge from dropping too low. How does it do that, does have a robotic arm and goes and finds the nearest outlet, does it expand solar panels, because batteries will discharge even if completely disconnected. And it also highly depends on the ambient temperature. So I don't s…

Why in the world would Tesla then charge owner $40k then? Did they? I'm not being glib. Was that conjecture in the previous post, or was it an established fact?

Well I am running with what the original post had in it. Yeah it could be an lie, and if it is, it would be very easy to check, it is not a nebulous claim. Tesla just has to respond and say "no we never charged $40k" if it is in fact not true.

Re: Tesla: Not so easily bricked

#53
"They probably aren't actually bricks, but cars in need of servicing."

$40k bill is not a "servicing" - it's a new car.

My problem with counter-arguments that use "drained oil" as an example, is that oil change is done every few thousand miles (say, 3000 miles in case of my car). Now, this is recommended (albeit, strongly) frequency. This means that if I drove my car around 3000 miles, then went to airport, left my car sitting on the parking lot for a month, chances are I'll drive back home sound and safe, and my bill for oil change will be the same $30, as it would if I get it change on or below recommended 3000 miles. Note that I don't need to trickle-change the oil in this case.

Now, if we compare battery drain to fuel tank depletion (which is technically more correct, since battery is the fuel for Tesla), then comparisson is even less pleasant for Tesla.

Having said that, I don't see anything wrong to bringing the potential battery bricking issue up (especially in light of arrival of more affordable vehicles from Tesla) - Tesla should've used this as an opportunity to educate people and do right by the owners of bricked cars by picking up part of the repair bill with some strings attached.

Re: Tesla: Not so easily bricked

#54
What is interesting to me is what the author does not dispute - that Tesla charged $40,000 to fix the problem.

Anecdote is not evidence, but last year I had a dealer offer to reset my cars computer to reflect a scheduled inspection for $220 when it was in for a windshield replacement - this wasn't for the inspection, which is part of any routine service, but for resetting a 32,000 mile cycle which displays a warning.

The reset process is relatively arcane, but only took me about five minutes, including digging out the printed instructions which I had downloaded from the internet following an oil change and a couple of false starts.

So it wouldn't surprise me that a dealer would seek $40k to reset a system.

Re: Tesla: Not so easily bricked

#55
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the point there is that anyone purchasing an electric vehicle should do some basic research about electric cars and batteries. It's not that they should know this because boat owners know it; instead it's that they should take it upon themselves to find out this important and simple piece of maintenance, just as boat owner's have done. In other words, when you buy a boat, you understand that it's different fr…

I don't think it's reasonable to expect the consumer to do research of any sort. It would be very easy for Tesla to mention this at the time of purchase, document it, and also provide a dashboard notification of some sort.

Based on what drzaiusapelord said I don't think there is any research required of any sort.

When you buy a Tesla the following happens: You are vebally told about this. You are then shown a document to sign that you were told about this Your car will beep loudly when its under 5% charge If its a newer Tesla it will beep and also log an issue with the service center, who will then continue to call you to tell you to plug it in. No boat experience required.

Re: Tesla: Not so easily bricked

#56
post #31

The blogger might be an ignorant, but the OP post doesn't reassure me. If I go in a 5 months travel doing consulting abroad, and I'm living alone; who guarantee that my car is being constantly put on the charger? There are many cases (plug dysfunction, electric problem...) and $40K is not a trivial amount.

Did you read the article? It stated that not charging the the car WILL NOT lead to $40,000 bricking.

Re: Tesla: Not so easily bricked

#57

What is interesting to me is what the author does not dispute - that Tesla charged $40,000 to fix the problem. Anecdote is not evidence, but last year I had a dealer offer to reset my cars computer to reflect a scheduled inspection for $220 when it was in for a windshield replacement - this wasn't for the inspection, which is part of any routine service, but for resetting a 32,000 mile cycle which displays a warning.…

Absolutely. The author even claims that all is needed is a reboot of the hardware controller. This would seems even more scandalous that it costs 40 grands.

Re: Tesla: Not so easily bricked

#58
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It contradicts it, but which account is correct. This new blog post says 'you just need to re-charge to fix'. The original post says 'you just need $40,000' to fix. The orignial post appears to have better sources than this one, so I would say that it has been contradicted, but not refuted.

If $40k is not needed why would Tesla charge that then for a re-charge? That would be terrible, terrible PR for them.

[deleted]

Re: Tesla: Not so easily bricked

#59
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It contradicts it, but which account is correct. This new blog post says 'you just need to re-charge to fix'. The original post says 'you just need $40,000' to fix. The orignial post appears to have better sources than this one, so I would say that it has been contradicted, but not refuted.

If $40k is not needed why would Tesla charge that then for a re-charge? That would be terrible, terrible PR for them.

As this article points out, after deep discharge you need to 'reboot the battery management system' which means many 'bricked' cars can be brought back without buying a new battery. Battery chemistry means they lose capacity after a deep discharge, but that does not make the battery pack useless.

However, many of the people that bought a first gen Tesla are also the type of people when told 'you just lost 2-5% of your total range don't do that again.' Will say, just replace the battery. And when told 'That's 40k' they will say 'I don't care just replace it'. Which is a different situation.

PS: Don't forget you need to buy a 100,000$ car and not drive it for months before this becomes a real problem. Most people that can afford to do that have a vary different view of money than the average person on HN.

Re: Tesla: Not so easily bricked

#60
I salute Tesla Motors for their progress in the premium electric car industry. However, the problem to me isn't the batteries or the technology. The company reminds me a good bit of the DeLorean Motor Company in that it will make an impact but will not be another Ford, because they have a marketing problem. Most think of early automobile companies as having products that sold themselves, since they competed against horses. This is just not true. What Ford did well was not just production- it was marketing. They could have had interchangeable parts up the yin-yang, but without the advertisements, the word of mouth, the product placement in movies, etc. they wouldn't be where they are today. So, let's assume that Tesla has a great product, which I can't say because I've never seen, driven, or ridden in one in-person. They need to mass market it. Even if everyone can't afford one, they need to want to own one. I don't, because they haven't made it sexy! If they mass market it, they will get the revenue they need to attract the investment to really start the product cycle seriously. Get a seriously decked out but quasi-affordable Tesla car in a Bond movie and maybe they'll be set for life.
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