Live data from Hacker News

Taurine deficiency as a driver of aging

science.org

171–180 of 301 posts

Re: Taurine deficiency as a driver of aging

#171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no sophistry here. I simply find the FDA's GRAS finding, and the EU SCF's findings, to be much more convincing than a handful of restricted studies. You, clearly, do not feel the same, but given that you feel that my position on this is "sophistry" and "bullshit", it is obvious that we are incapable of having an actual discussion on it.

I'm with xcv here. It's impossible to have a logical discussion with someone who doesn't see a contradiction between "sucralose is toxic" and "there is nothing wrong with sucralose", and it's impossible to have a fairminded discussion with someone who gives objections as speed bumps instead of arguments. If you really cared whether he had linked to a news article vs a study, you would have been satisfied and apologet…

I'm really not understanding why this is being called a contradiction. These studies have, in a good scientific fashion, uncovered some amount of evidence. This evidence has to stand up against 25 years of the FDA recognizing sucralose as generally-recognized-as-safe (GRAS), and the decades prior that made it reach that point. That's a tall hurdle!

A contradiction as the term is being used here, to claim my position is invalid, would mean the studies have found some mathematical proof from axioms that sucralose is toxic. If they did, that would certainly be a contradiction! But that's not what happened. They ran some experiments and found their results. That's good science! But that's not the sort of thing that creates a logical contradiction. Their results don't immediately invalidate 25 years of GRAS status and the decades of work and observation that resulted in that status. They say something more like "hey that's interesting, and worth taking a closer look and getting a better understanding".

My statement that seems to cause some bones of contention was "there's absolutely nothing wrong with consuming sucralose". The study might cause some disagreement there, but the FDA agrees with me on this one. That's not a contradiction in my logic, that's a scientific disagreement. People can disagree in science without there being a contradiction in the logic of either side. Logic has some pretty strict mathematical requirements, after all.

edit: Aand, going back to what I originally wrote, this is the exact statement from the other user that I said I was not contradicting with anything I wrote: "There are studies for and against artificial sweeteners. There are studies funded by industry. There is such a thing as corruption in science and corruption in regulatory agencies. The global artificial sweetener market size is $7 Billion."

All of those things are true, and nothing I wrote addresses them at all. From there we seemed to have launched into a debate about studies. Which, that's fine, but that's a totally separate type of disagreement!

Re: Taurine deficiency as a driver of aging

#172
post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is simple logic. It seems that you don't understand the meaning of the word "contradiction" "a combination of statements, ideas, or features which are opposed to one another." You wrote that there is no problem with sucralose. I showed studies indicating a problem with sucralose. That is a contradiction. Then you gaslight us saying there is no contradiction. Sophistry and gaslighting. This is basic english and l…

Words like "gaslight" must have no meaning anymore. All of my comments are here for reading. If you think I'm lying...I don't know what to tell you. There's no contradiction. The FDA marks sucralose as GRAS, which means "generally recognized as safe". There's a study you found that disagree. There's other studies over the decades that disagree as well. You may choose to believe the body of evidence gathered by the FD…

Referring to the FDA is an appeal to authority. Yet another logical fallacy from you.

They are a regulatory agency and are part of the most corrupt government on earth (US Government). You are outsourcing your thinking to a corrupt government agency staffed by extremely mediocre people who are not intellectually capable of doing the research themselves.

You stated there is no problem with sucralose. I referred to studies showing that there is indeed a problem. Then you say there is no contradiction, but this is a contradiction by definition. To insist that there is no contradiction is blatant stupidity at best, and gaslighting at worst.

I am sorry that you get personally offended by English dictionary definitions and basic logic.

Re: Taurine deficiency as a driver of aging

#173

Solid study, but the core results are based on a single genotype of mouse — C57BL/6J. Imagine a clinical study of longevity using 120 clones of you or me. Taurine may be effective at extending lifespan and healthspan of C57BL/6J mice but will it work as well using genetically diverse mice such as the UM-HET3 mice? Like humans, the UM-HET3 mice are genetically diverse (they segregate for about 11.5 million sequence va…

> By the way: A 16 oz can of Monster contains 2 grams of taurine.

And at least 50%+ of the "added sugar" recommendation(s) for an entire day (depending on whether you look at FDA, AHA, etc. guidelines).

You make good points, for sure, and I appreciate your comment and insights. But, "sugar" is definitely an issue with a lot of current foods.

Carbohydrates are crucial building blocks, biochemically. However, there are numerous increasingly documented adverse effects stemming from "simple sugars" consumption - both epidemiologically, and mechanistically / molecularly (e.g., "glycation").

That said, I'd absolutely recommend sugar over many other available sweeteners. In fact, there are a whole host of "refined" food "modifiers" increasingly available and used that seem to have often unfortunately deleterious effects. For example, even substances like inulin, sugar alcohols, etc., that can be beneficial (have been determined to contribute to healthfulness) in various foods that have been eaten by humans for centuries if not millennia, often end up either not beneficial or actually harmful as applied in current "modern food chemistry".

This isn't to say that we must go "paleo", nor that there are inherent or unsurpassable problems in formulating and "manufacturing" (always a word I love, when it comes to food ... meh) new food products that are safe and have advantages over many entirely unprocessed foods (hell, cooking IS a form of processing, and it's rather crucial given our physiologies, improving safety and nutrition of many types of foods significantly). But, food processing and manufacturing is a rather lightly regulated industry in some ways, and much of it moves far faster than studies of the implications of all of the new formulations, additives, etc.

Time and again, people and industry have been enamored of some apparent "free lunch" that has bitten us in the ass, so to speak, ultimately.

Re: Taurine deficiency as a driver of aging

#174
post #84

Obviously the real driver of aging is that there was no selective pressure to keep the organism working after sufficient semi-clones were brought online, and keeping an organism functional is a hard problem. The solution is to gain the ability to simulate the organism that results from a particular DNA sequence, understand the design problems in the organism, fix the problems, then alter human DNA to include the fixe…

But if the organism lived longer it would keep pumping semiclones. And if organisms are basically huge self-sustaining feedback loops, why won't they keep sustaining ... forever until some pressure forces them to decay

[deleted]

Re: Taurine deficiency as a driver of aging

#175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can't stop laughing. The day after is terrible, but with the aging factor relevated - here is the recipe of favorite anti-aging cocktail Jäger Bomb Ingredients 1 1/2 ounces Jägermeister Liqueur 1/2 (8.4-ounce) can Red Bull energy drink https://www.thespruceeats.com/jager-bomb-recipe-759713

or a nice steak. 1 - 14oz steak, season with tiptop steak seasoning, grill 3-4mins per side on med heat. let rest 5 mins. enjoy.

Octopus and squids works too. Buy boiled and/or pre-sashimi’d, open package, slice as needed and serve with soy sauce.

Somehow I hated them as a child. Maybe it was too much for my body back then.

Re: Taurine deficiency as a driver of aging

#176

Solid study, but the core results are based on a single genotype of mouse — C57BL/6J. Imagine a clinical study of longevity using 120 clones of you or me. Taurine may be effective at extending lifespan and healthspan of C57BL/6J mice but will it work as well using genetically diverse mice such as the UM-HET3 mice? Like humans, the UM-HET3 mice are genetically diverse (they segregate for about 11.5 million sequence va…

Whats your thoughts on the dosage? They use 1g per kg of body weight! If I drank Monster to get the equivalent dosage I think I'd probably die... How did they arrive on that dosage?

Re: Taurine deficiency as a driver of aging

#178

Taurine? I've been jacking myself full of that since Middle School! Thanks RedBull! Jokes aside, This feels like one of "Wine is Good for you " In moderation and other fine point details. Not buying it.

MSM media is always trying to convince people they can live longer if they stick with coffee, berries, dark chocolate and wine — as if those foods needed boosters. And if true I’m quite sure we’d have people out there living to 150…

The people I know who talk about these items the most vocally also frequently have fast food.

Re: Taurine deficiency as a driver of aging

#179
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, taking nicotine doesn't seem to be bad. Putting smoke in your lungs on the other hand...

Nicotine is quite bad for your blood pressure.

Not being snarky - but do you have references for that? Most research I've seen either conflates nicotine and tobacco, or finds 'pure' nicotine (eg NRTs) have close to zero negative side effects.

Re: Taurine deficiency as a driver of aging

#180

Solid study, but the core results are based on a single genotype of mouse — C57BL/6J. Imagine a clinical study of longevity using 120 clones of you or me. Taurine may be effective at extending lifespan and healthspan of C57BL/6J mice but will it work as well using genetically diverse mice such as the UM-HET3 mice? Like humans, the UM-HET3 mice are genetically diverse (they segregate for about 11.5 million sequence va…

Whats your thoughts on the dosage? They use 1g per kg of body weight! If I drank Monster to get the equivalent dosage I think I'd probably die... How did they arrive on that dosage?

That's because Monster has caffiene and other chemicals in there that may kill you! The Taurine itself probably won't kill you as LD50 is 5g per kg of body weight
Post reply on HN