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Clearing 500k feral cats from New York’s streets

nytimes.com

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Re: Clearing 500k feral cats from New York’s streets

#101

Post by MrOwnPut »

lambdasquirrel wrote: post #90
ajaimk wrote: post #88

Don’t we have a rat problem too? I live in Manhattan, send us some of these cats!

Having had (pet) rats as well as a cat (briefly), I don’t think that cats are generally sufficient for rats. Fully grown adult rats are too big for cats to handle and they only take 10 weeks to reach a size that will make them troublesome for average cat. Remember that a feral cat does not have access to health services. If they are injured trying to take down prey, they will probably be dead shortly after. That havi…

To expand, cats also can't (don't prefer to) take on a lot of fully grown birds.

What they can do easily is kill young, like most predators.

Re: Clearing 500k feral cats from New York’s streets

#105

Post by throwaway_99999 »

katbyte wrote: post #93
asdajksah2123 wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cats on the streets suffer. Badly. Cats on the streets are a disaster for the bird population. And contrary to what cartoons have taught us, cats are not an effective way at keeping rats at bay (in fact, the threat of dead cats makes rat poisoning efforts far more difficult to implement).

> Cats on the streets are a disaster for the bird population and still pale in comparison to the effect us and our cities have on their populations. cats are not the big problem, we are, people just don't like to admit it and would rather blame them. As is likely us destroying the insect populations many species depend on. > threat of dead cats makes rat poisoning efforts far more difficult to implement the reality o…

In contrary. It is you who doesn't like to admit it. Makes sense in a way, as cats are our cute pets and thus emotionally much closer to us than random wild birds. Ironically, those huge cat populations are caused by humans, so in the end humans indeed are to blame.

From https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms2380

"Our findings suggest that free-ranging cats cause substantially greater wildlife mortality than previously thought and are likely the single greatest source of anthropogenic mortality for US birds and mammals."

Re: Clearing 500k feral cats from New York’s streets

#106

Post by elicash »

morley wrote: post #20

The article is making it seem like trap-neuter-release is a completely new strategy, but groups in NYC and elsewhere have been employing it for a long time. What's new is that Flatbush Cats is building a new vet clinic to provide more spaying / neutering capacity.

No it isn't. The article brings up the term about halfway into the article and immediately say it was "first developed in England in the 1950s." This is right before they even define what TNR is! Then they immediately go into what other cities have done on this front.

Re: Clearing 500k feral cats from New York’s streets

#107

Post by htag »

Ozzie_osman wrote: post #96
bhewes wrote: post #80

NYC should learn from Istanbul and accept their rodent cleaners.

I've seen NYC subway rats and I'd wager most cats wouldn't take them on.

This really depends on how hungry the cat is. Feral cats commonly kill mammals larger than NYC rats, although they prefer smaller game. In general, you can expect a feline to be able to kill prey over twice it's body weight. In many habitats felines are the apex predator, and even feral cats are apex predators of some habitats.

The biggest issue is that NYC rats, the non-native species that have evolved in urban environments, have evolved with cats as a predator for a long period of time and are better than native birds/small mammals at evading cats. Cats eat the native population at a higher rate, which means the invasive and hated 'NYC rats' have less competition from native populations.

Re: Clearing 500k feral cats from New York’s streets

#108

Post by throwaway_99999 »

canjobear wrote: post #38
Traubenfuchs wrote: post #10

> Rattling off statistics that she has internalized as a volunteer, Ms. Adams points out that eight out of 10 street kittens die within their first six months. Those that survive are often disease-ridden. Winters here can be deadly for a species that originated in the Mediterranean climate of North Africa. And traffic takes a big toll. I wonder if those kitties show genetical adaptions specific to their challenging e…

Given the push to sterilize and kill them, their best bet is to evolve away from being friendly to humans.

That would be counter-productive. The main driver of cat population are humans. Cats evolving to being hostile to humans might in the end diminish public opposition to extermination programs.

Re: Clearing 500k feral cats from New York’s streets

#109

Post by ahoy »

ajaimk wrote: post #88

Don’t we have a rat problem too? I live in Manhattan, send us some of these cats!

Most rats are too big for the average cat to prey on. Mice sure. Rats get quite large.

Imagine trying to fight a medium sized dog. You'd probably win, but after 2 or 3 encounters like that you'd probably get hurt. That's a bad proposition when there's smaller, easier prey. And just like, human garbage full of food too.

Re: Clearing 500k feral cats from New York’s streets

#110

Post by stefan_ »

technothrasher wrote: post #95
stefan_ wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do I care about the bird population over the cat population? Who's playing god?

Because there's a real danger of losing some of these bird species, and absolutely zero danger of losing domestic cats as a species?

Species are lost all the time, it's just an arbitrary cut from an infinitely expanding evolutionary tree. So it's about as many different of them as possible? Does that strike you as an odd metric?
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